Hearing Protection/Audiology Appt

[mjw930]

Originally Posted by Pitts

The next stop on my quest for hearing protection is now going to be to figure out a solution that works for getting the audio in my new fangled ears. What would be really nice would be if there were a headphone jack on a bluetooth helmet system so that I could continue to remain untethered to the bike. I'll be looking at all the various options (Autocom, J&M, home rolled, etc) and going back through all the old thread here. Any advice on the best way to get a 3.5mm headphone plug available to me for bike audio would be appreciated.

EDIT: I should add that 100% of my riding is solo and that bike to bike isn't that important to me. Not that these features aren't great but I ride with diverse groups (when I ride in groups) and there's never any telling how they're equipped so we just plan and communicate the old fashion way.

There is something with an earbud option that will work with the K16 BT and your phone. Get the Sena SMH10 and add the SMH-A0304 optional headset

Sena Bluetooth

[sfoster]

Originally Posted by RL Lemke

Only the Sensaphonics trained audiologists have been trained with an emphasis in music reproduction with ear monitors.

Sorry RL, that's a big fat untruthism (I'm planning on copyrighting that word )

[RL Lemke]

Originally Posted by sfoster

Sorry RL, that's a big fat untruthism (I'm planning on copyrighting that word )

Well, let me rephrase the statement with what I was told. Sensaphonics holds special classes across the US to instruct audiologists about the peculiarities of molds and their monitors as it relates to musicians and their special needs. 1) The mold requirements are far more precise than the molds I have had made by others, including audiologists. 2) The isolation necessary to protect musicians during live stage performances.

You see, there is a world of difference between the needs of one in very loud environments and one who wishes to restore the ability to hear and understand after their hearing has been damaged.

[RL Lemke]

What I find humorous, in a bad way, are people working outside at airports with simple foam earplugs. Just as dumb as when my dad was told by the Army to just open his mouth during canon firing to protect his hearing.

When I go shooting I wear molded earplugs and ear muffs. Gunshots are still loud to me. Especially machine guns on full auto, in the indoor range.

I've had shooters earplugs made, with the little valve to allow better hearing. Waste of money. Even when I double-up on ear protection I can hear voices just fine.

[KOCook]

RL, apparently Sensaphonics also makes filtered and non-filtered ear plugs. The non-filtered provide the max attenuation. Have a set being made along with my 2X-S.

[Pitts]

Originally Posted by RL Lemke

Well, let me rephrase the statement with what I was told. Sensaphonics holds special classes across the US to instruct audiologists about the peculiarities of molds and their monitors as it relates to musicians and their special needs. 1) The mold requirements are far more precise than the molds I have had made by others, including audiologists. 2) The isolation necessary to protect musicians during live stage performances.

You see, there is a world of difference between the needs of one in very loud environments and one who wishes to restore the ability to hear and understand after their hearing has been damaged.

I'm just learning about what's possible in this world of advanced hearing protection and I'm looking to improve my knowledge so please don't take what I'm about to say as confrontational or argumentative. But, there's a bit of what you're saying that's counter-intuitive and some sense, irrelevant. The special requirements of musicians at the highest levels of performance are sexy enough but it seems inappropriate to translate the best of that world to what would be the best in motorsports hearing protection. Our application is entirely different.

What we should be striving for is adequate hearing protection without filtering out all sound as a first priority followed by only a modicum of audio clarity as a second priority. Studio quality sound inside my brain bucket is wasted technology and money. If I want to hear the finest details of classical music I'll put it on in my home theater.

It would be my thought that aviation is one proper place to look for technology and solutions to our problem. There's been decades of advancement in pilot head gear. The solutions available today are so good they nearly defy reason. I still remember the first time I put on my Bose Series X headset in the plane and thought "dang, that's quiet." Then I turned on the Active Noise Canceling (ANR) and thought the engine had quit. It was nearly completely silent. Now, that's just an over the ear headset with ANR and it's not even the best anymore. My Telex Stratus 50D is 50db of noise canceling and again, is an over the ear head set. My Clarity Aloft Pro model head set is an in-ear bud with generic foam ear plugs and puts all the other over the ear models to shame. When I switch from my Telex to my Clarity, I have to turn my aviation radio WAY down and vice versa when I switch back to the Telex.

With all of these headsets, hearing protection through passive and active noise attenuation is the first priority with clear voice communications as equally important. I play music routinely through my headsets in the plane and it sounds much better than my C3/SRC system on the bike. I would say the reason for that is that the volume of the music can be much lower with way less outside noise.

I've already ordered the Westone CR1 custom in-ear phones so I'll be evaluating them in a few weeks. But in the mean time, I'm going to see about installing a set of my aviation gel seals over/around the speakers installed in my Arai/Cardo G4 hat. If I can get a tight comfortable fit with those gel seals around my ears, I'm thinking that might be the quietest and best solution of all. I've worn headsets for 10 - 12 hours a day that have these seals and they're very comfortable. Here's some examples of what I'm talking about:

Ear Seals Headset Accessories from Aircraft Spruce

I wonder if there's a noise level meter that I can place the mic up inside these ear cups and get an ambient noise level? Radio Shack or some of the music stores around here might have something. A shopping trip may be in order.

It just seems to me that this is an area that the motorcycle industry could learn from other motorsports and I'm not so sure musicians gear would be the best place to find solutions.

[RL Lemke]

Originally Posted by Pitts

I wonder if there's a noise level meter that I can place the mic up inside these ear cups and get an ambient noise level? .

One of the UK magazines already did this with real helmets on one rider, riding the same loop. The ambient sound level is in fact damaging on a motorcycle, wearing a helmet. They did place a mic right against the ear.

Schuberth was the quietest, by far.


As far as motosports, shooting, airplanes, live concerts, volume is volume. The difference is how loud, what frequencies, and how long. I would proffer that the live concert is the most difficult to protect from damage because of the wide range of frequencies. Much more difficult than the relative constant lower frequencies inside a helmet or in an airplane.

The point I keep trying, obviously poorly, is that to accurately represent the desired musical reproduction inside the ear, while protecting from an extremely loud environment is exactly what I'm spending money on.

Am I making comment on Westone? No.

Am I saying that after making many other ear monitor purchases, that I have found Sensaphonics to be the best? Yes.
"Custom-fit, soft-gel silicone earpieces
provide superb noise isolation (up to -37
dB), which makes the 2MAX the quietest
headphone Playback has ever tested—
regardless of type. Note that the 2MAX
provides backgrounds said to be as much
as -10dB quieter that those afforded by
competing monitors, which is—trust us on
this one—a very significant difference."

The Big Ear monitors ($350) I own are basically rebadged Westones, the ones with dual drivers and vinyl ear pieces (as I recall).

If the desired goal was purely protection, or isolation, then that is a different discussion.

The addition of cups around the ear might be good. The single biggest consideration with a full face helmet, with the visor shut, is the neck area. If you want to add a great deal of isolation, wear some sort of neck sock to further shield the area where the helmet foam meets the skin.

I think that the Schuberth design has the smallest neck opening, making for a more quiet environment. In severe crosswinds I can position my head, up down/side to side, in a manner that makes the helmet much quieter.

[RL Lemke]

Earplugs 101: Part 1

"Tom’s meter didn’t give us the option of measuring frequency. But some researchers in England carefully measured wind level, and determined that wind noise is very loud at low frequencies, drops off steadily after about 250 cycles per second (“Hz”) and goes quiet by about 6000 Hz."

Motorcycle Consumer News: Product Comparison: Premium Helmets

"Again, as with drag, the full-face helmets performed better than the open-face ones. No surprise here, since we expect objects which have more aerodynamic drag to generate more wind noise. For the full-face helmets, the Shoei X-9 at 103 dBA was the most effective in reducing noise. The Arai RX-7RRIII at 106 dBA at 80 mph was the least effective. Does this mean that Doreen should sneak out of the lab with the X-9 and feel secure that she has the best helmet for noise protection? No. What it means is that motorcycle helmets are designed to protect your head, not your hearing. Doreen's hearing is at risk regardless of which brand or model helmet she chooses."

N.B.: They didn't test a Schuberth.

"The government standard means that Doreen can have up to a 25-dB loss in response in the 500 - 2000 Hz range. That's the frequency range in which good response is required for voice recognition. Unfortunately, this is the same frequency range in which most of the wind noise occurs. What does that mean to Doreen? With a 25-dB loss, Doreen is on the verge of having trouble understanding telephone conversations, hearing movies or television, or carrying on conversations with friends because speech information falls into those critical frequencies."

[RL Lemke]

Schuberth already has these features. HelmetMuffler.com

[RL Lemke]

Hearing Protection for Motorcyclists | Rider Magazine Buyers Guide

"Up to 40 mph, wind noise is usually not a problem; our ears are still operating within their design envelope. As speed increases past 40 mph, wind noise rises at a much faster rate. Our ears quickly become overwhelmed."

"Let’s look at some studies that relate to motorcyclists.

Careful testing has determined accurate in-helmet measurements of wind noise intensity at varying speeds. One British study at the University of Southampton was done to measure real-world sound risks involving “working motorcyclists,” like policemen or messengers.

After inserting calibrated microphones into the outer ears of riders, controlled tests were run both on the street and in wind tunnels. The study found that wind noise increased dramatically over 40 mph and quickly obscured any engine, exhaust or tire noise.

This study, done on BMW K-bikes, tested 27 helmet samples of 13 different types at speeds up to 70 mph. Surprisingly, at 70 mph, in-the-ear wind intensity averaged 100 dB despite any differences in helmet technology."

N.B.: I take issue with the generalization that all helmets offer the same level of protection.