Driveline lash and "clunk" descriptions - Page 4 - BMW K1600 Forum : BMW K1600 GT and GTL Forums
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post #31 of 88 Old 08-07-2012, 08:09 AM
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I am not trying to be difficult here, and as I said before, I really don't care that much. But I really believe there must be major differences between bikes. I am ready to bet $10.000,- to the first one who can take my bike through regulary stop and go traffic for one minute without clacking. Just not possible. Like a snowballs chance "down under".

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There are a lot of K16 riders that would happily show you how to ride your bike in traffic in a manner that eliminates or minimized the driveline noises it makes. If it was convenient I'd happily do it without taking your $10,000.

If there's something wrong with your bike then get it fixed. If it's just making the noises that all of these bikes make then there is certainly a manner of riding it, I would argue in the manner that was intended by the designers of the bike, that make these noises a non-issue.

For starters, stop using engine braking in low speed stop-and-go traffic and shift at 3500 RPM or above. Smooth and refined will be the result.

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post #32 of 88 Old 08-07-2012, 10:30 AM
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For starters, stop using engine braking in low speed stop-and-go traffic and shift at 3500 RPM or above. Smooth and refined will be the result.
With all due respect, I find this statement absolutely absurd. Your technique would have someone slowing from say 30 mph by pulling in the clutch? And shifting above 3500 rpm while accelerating in stop and go traffic? I'm just guessing that in 2nd gear that would equate to what, 40-45 mph?

Granted, some of the noise from the slipper clutch can be minimized by utilizing various techniques. Whether it is prudent to use these techniques in real world situations is debatable. I would much prefer for BMW to optimally design the clutch system so that the rider is not forced to use bizarre and unorthodox techniques to enable smooth, efficient operation.

I don't believe I'm alone here:

"But the K 1600 GTL’s performance advantage comes at a price. It suffers from too much driveline lash, it has long-throw shifting that feels clunky in lower gears and its throttle-by-wire system acts confused when revs fall below 3,000 rpm".

2012 BMW K 1600 GTL vs. Honda Gold Wing GL1800 ABS Comparison | Rider Magazine

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post #33 of 88 Old 08-07-2012, 11:09 AM
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"But the K 1600 GTL’s performance advantage comes at a price. It suffers from too much driveline lash, it has long-throw shifting that feels clunky in lower gears and its throttle-by-wire system acts confused when revs fall below 3,000 rpm".

2012 BMW K 1600 GTL vs. Honda Gold Wing GL1800 ABS Comparison | Rider Magazine
Two points - First - the K1600 was not meant as a direct competitor for the wing (the old LT was a direct competitor). Second - rider later named the GTL to be motorcycle of the year.

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post #34 of 88 Old 08-07-2012, 11:15 AM
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Two points - First - the K1600 was not meant as a direct competitor for the wing (the old LT was a direct competitor). Second - rider later named the GTL to be motorcycle of the year.
This just in:

"Rider Magazine picks the BMW K1600 GTL as motorcycle of the year, in spite of the excessive driveline lash."

The more that I think about it, isn't that exactly how most of us feel?

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post #35 of 88 Old 08-07-2012, 11:32 AM
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The more that I think about it, isn't that exactly how most of us feel?
Sold!

Nice ending statement. Like the last line in a book.

Can we move on now?

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post #36 of 88 Old 08-07-2012, 12:04 PM
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Sold!

Nice ending statement. Like the last line in a book.

Can we move on now?
You're certainly free to move on at your leisure. Most owners here have apparently accepted the fact and done so. And, I'm sure most owners would like to see this debate sail off into the sunset. Unlike you, my hope is that the book ends with some action by BMW.

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post #37 of 88 Old 08-07-2012, 12:46 PM
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You're certainly free to move on at your leisure. Most owners here have apparently accepted the fact and done so. And, I'm sure most owners would like to see this debate sail off into the sunset. Unlike you, my hope is that the book ends with some action by BMW.
I didn't say anything about BMW. If they want to do something, that's great; I'd be happy to have a quieter bike. But I don't think endless, repetitive posting here is going to make a bit of difference. If you really think you're accomplishing something by beating this way past the point of death, then beat away.


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post #38 of 88 Old 08-07-2012, 01:10 PM
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I didn't say anything about BMW. If they want to do something, that's great; I'd be happy to have a quieter bike. But I don't think endless, repetitive posting here is going to make a bit of difference. If you really think you're accomplishing something by beating this way past the point of death, then beat away.


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By not bringing this issue up with your dealer, and BMW, you are absolutely guaranteeing there will be no action taken. On the other hand, if enough owners voiced their concerns, there might be an outside chance of some form of improvement.

And I do by the way feel I'm accomplishing something by hopefully putting to rest the absurd notions that we must all change our riding styles to appease the bike. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

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post #39 of 88 Old 08-07-2012, 02:23 PM
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absurd notions that we must all change our riding styles to appease the bike. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

I do disagree with this statement -- we need to ride/drive a vehicle the way it was intended. I do have different riding styles techniques for each one of my bikes – you have too. The HD is no GT. On my HD, I have to use a lot of counter steering and rear brake going into a turn to keep from upsetting the suspension – I also shift at low RPM’s to get the power. The GT is the complete opposite which requires a different technique/style of riding.

The GT reminds me of my ST1300 where you can easily shift at low RPM’s and the torque will handle the situation, but it really does like the higher RPM’s. I find that I do lug the engine way too much on the GT – I don’t know how many times I have stalled the bike going into the driveway because I was in 3rd gear by mistake.

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post #40 of 88 Old 08-07-2012, 02:45 PM
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I do disagree with this statement -- we need to ride/drive a vehicle the way it was intended. I do have different riding styles techniques for each one of my bikes – you have too. The HD is no GT. On my HD, I have to use a lot of counter steering and rear brake going into a turn to keep from upsetting the suspension – I also shift at low RPM’s to get the power. The GT is the complete opposite which requires a different technique/style of riding.

The GT reminds me of my ST1300 where you can easily shift at low RPM’s and the torque will handle the situation, but it really does like the higher RPM’s. I find that I do lug the engine way too much on the GT – I don’t know how many times I have stalled the bike going into the driveway because I was in 3rd gear by mistake.
Granted, different bikes and engines require some subtle changes to operational techniques. But something like this is well beyond subtle:

"For starters, stop using engine braking in low speed stop-and-go traffic and shift at 3500 RPM or above. Smooth and refined will be the result".

I've probably owned 20 bikes over the years, and not one of them required pulling in the clutch at 30 mph when slowing down.

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