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Brand new K1600 failure- sad story

18K views 51 replies 35 participants last post by  Hallzee 
#1 ·
This is making the LD news and it does not speak well of the BMW brand. Between this and my friend's catastrophe K1600 engine failure, leads to a lack of confidence in the new K's.

2015 Iron Butt Rally: End of our dream | Selil

Further testing of the bike at the BMW dealership resulted in the complete failure of the 'DME (?)' to accept any 'updates'. There are much more descriptive efforts and details of the problem in various threads on LDRider.


Ride Safe,
Robert Rehkopf
 
#2 ·
Like I said to you in another location...stop fanning the flames!

There are MANY MANY more examples of everyday riders that have no problems and love the K1600...just because it happened to someone on the IBA Rally ride, doesn't make the "Brand" bad, or the latest of several updates bad, or cause the rest of us happy K1600 owners to loose faith in this wonderful machine.

Enjoy your 4th!
 
#3 ·
I'm sure BMW didn't put a faulty ECM in his machine on purpose. There's things out there that happen and while hard to believe are still out of a manufacturers control. I think small computer chips, fall under this category.

Personally..... I would have never taken a brand new, untested machine on a LD trip like that. I would have wanted to put some miles on it first if for nothing else than to shake it down real good. Had this happened 6 months before the rally, I'm sure they could have it fixed and he wouldn't be as down on the machine as he is now.

Why post this here? Not enough attention elsewhere?
 
#11 ·
Personally..... I would have never taken a brand new, untested machine on a LD trip like that. I would have wanted to put some miles on it first if for nothing else than to shake it down real good.
Spot on.

Sam took a gamble, and unfortunately, it failed for him and his lovely wife.

I personally know how heartbreaking dropping out of an IBR can be. Sucks even more when you're feeling good and the bike fails on you.

Yes, this was unfortunate, and yes, it sucks for Sam and Sydney, and yes, there are those who will use this as an excuse to tell the world how awful BMW motorcycles are.

But they'll all get over it, and move on to the next ride . . .
 
#5 ·
The writing of both the owner of the bike and the OP of this thread are extremely sensationalized, but there is no real information about what actually went wrong. While I am the first to say that BMW pushes the envelope in bleeding edge technology which does seem to result in a worse overall reliability, the truth is that in my three plus years on this forum, there are actually very few stories of bikes leaving someone stranded - dead in the water.
 
#7 ·
Yawn.....poetry
 
#8 ·
most electronics fail...within....

Back in the day we turned on new pc's in the computer room and left them on for three or four days solid before giving them to people. It seemed that if a circuit board was going to fail it would fail in the first few days after getting hot. Solder joints, etc,. PC's that would pass this initial test would end up running for years left on 24/7 as long as they weren't on the floor collecting dust in the fan. Electronic failures are not UN-COMMON.

So you bought a brand new bike and decided to enter an Iron Butt rally. Seems like user error on your part. Do you put on brand new tires and go riding down the freeway at + double nickel speeds? To you change the oil, filter , get on and ride 100 + miles and hour and never check for leaks?

Wake up - don't blame the brand, change your attitude and plan for success not failure.

There will be other rallies, put 20K on your bike, work out the kinks then your probability of riding 2k more will be much higher.

Cheers.
 
#13 ·
Back in the day we turned on new pc's in the computer room and left them on for three or four days solid before giving them to people. It seemed that if a circuit board was going to fail it would fail in the first few days after getting hot. Solder joints, etc,. PC's that would pass this initial test would end up running for years left on 24/7 as long as they weren't on the floor collecting dust in the fan. Electronic failures are not UN-COMMON.

So you bought a brand new bike and decided to enter an Iron Butt rally. Seems like user error on your part. Do you put on brand new tires and go riding down the freeway at + double nickel speeds? To you change the oil, filter , get on and ride 100 + miles and hour and never check for leaks?

Wake up - don't blame the brand, change your attitude and plan for success not failure.

There will be other rallies, put 20K on your bike, work out the kinks then your probability of riding 2k more will be much higher.

Cheers.
Yep, it's called infant mortality and it affects everything made. Sucks but it's the way of the world. I would have put on at least 4k before using it in the Ironbutt. BTW - forget the lemon law threat; I don't see how it would apply in this case.
 
#10 ·
Sorry you had problems but they all break

In the last 40 years my family has owned dealerships in every brand. They all break. The difference between the best and the worst are very small measured in 1 in 10,000 cars. The amount you spend means little. $100,000 BMW's break down and so do $15,000 Chevrolets. they are all mechanical and put together by human beings. Look it up, its true.
 
#14 ·
A friend of mine bought a new Harley Ultra about 5 years ago. For no apparent reason and with no warning with no consistency, the bike would just die. He had it to the dealer around 6 times and they could never come up with a solution. He finally bought another bike. S*** happens.
 
#15 ·
From that write-up you'd think their first born had just died, "...crying in our hotel room". OK, a part broke, although the article doesn't really specify "which" part. Sh_t Happens, that's life...
 
#17 ·
Selil, the LD writer of the blog article is a long time forum member on here.

Also, doesn't appear to be his first K16 either.

Can only wish him good luck in a resolution.
 
#18 ·
It's a tough break and I feel sorry for him, but in all reality, he set himself up for failure.

Owning as many boats as bike, there is a reason for the first "shake down" cruise. You NEVER take (new) a boat out on a long off shore trip without first trying to break everything. Same with a bike. You ride it a while to see what it will do and where the failure points are. I did the short Iron Butt not long after I bought my K1600 (# 385 off the boat) but probably put at least 1,500 miles on her first.

She purred like a kitten and the trip was amazing..... Just one long smooth ride and after 24,000 miles still getting better and better.
 
#19 ·
I seem to recall that the K1600 model fared poorly in the IB rally 2 years ago, with several of the bikes breaking down. Probably not wise to enter the IB Rally with any model brand new bike. The BMW boxer engine models, Yamaha and Honda seems to be the most popular and reliable choices for the IB Rally where a break down can put you out of the race. My sympathy to the OP for their problem with the bike, but as has been said repeatedly here, this stuff does happen, esp. during an IB Rally.
 
#22 ·
Could you imagine out running this guy in a street race?

That article reminds me of this confederate general who would take his daughters into town every Saturday. But sometimes he would tell them they were going, let them get all dressed up and waiting in the wagon, then he'd say they were staying home instead. When asked why he did this, he said it was to teach them how to graciously accept disappointment.
 
#21 ·
I'm sorry their dream IBR was cut short, but returning the bike to BMW under the lemon law because a computer took a dump is unlikely. The lemon law gives a dealer three attempts to fix the problem, this one is an easy fix, new computer and away you go, I'd be surprised if BMW takes that bike back.:rolleyes:
 
#23 · (Edited)
I wonder

A few years ago when political correctness was all the rage, it was also popular to give trophies to everyone that was on a team, weather they won anything or finished in last place. Some of us wondered if the kids on those teams would learn the valuable lessons of dealing with life, disappointments, responsibility and personal accountability. I wonder what happened to those kids?
 
#25 ·
As the ridder in question I think it is interesting way to treat another member of the forum. So... Let me get this right. A BMW motorcycle requires a burn in time. They according to several of you are not reliable enough to expect to run an Iron Butt Rally right off the show room floor? Having had a trouble free K16 mount I wouldn't have expected that. I don't think BMW thinks that. Rather than rush to judgement without information I'm waiting to see what BMW says.The claims about rally bike preparation are hilarious. Ken gets it.

Poetry yawn? Somebody posts real content to a blog and you all get a case of the ass? Taking items out of context and arguing on the Internet? Imagine that. Thank you for being considerate, kind, or just STFU when somebody else is disappointed.

With the exception of my friend Ken Meese who knows EXACTLY how I feel I suggest the rest of you stay under the porch. Since I have finished the Iron Butt Rally, numerous certificate rides, and owned two K16s, along with around half a million miles on BMWs. Lets look at a few numbers for why this is a personal loss and I'm looking at the three eyed lot of you as jerk wads. What you so casually dismiss is without any freaking clue is the $15K in fees, hotels, preparation costs, and time to get to the rally along with three weeks of vacation and additional mandatory meetings in the two years leading up to the rally.

I know Ken, Matt, Andi and John know how to ride the rally and what it exactly takes. Part of this challenge was exactly to show that a BMW could run the entire Iron Butt Rally box stock and off the showroom floor. The exact opposite of a hopeless class entry. I put a lot of faith in my BMWs. Reading some of your comments I'm guessing you don't put nearly as much faith into the Teutonic brand than I do.

As to the Lemon Law comments. 1) You don't know the entire story, but thank you for your less than informed comments. Sometimes it is better take things on face value than try and guess. 2) The dealer is extremely worried that something more than the computer is wrong and installing the last computer in the United States into my bike and having it smoke is an option they are actually considering. How awesome is that!? Is the computer the cause or is something else causing the computer to catastrophically fail? That is an unknown the dealer is working through. 3) The computer took a dump but the catastrophic failure may mean it will be several MONTHS until the bike is on the road again. Which under Virginia law kicks in the lemon law provision according to the dealer. We don't know the answer to that one yet as two wonderful dealers are still trying to figure out what to do.

This of course is a synopsis. Please feel free to challenge my veracity, political correctness, ability to deal with adversity, and understanding of the trials and tribulations of riding in the premier long distance rally which I have successfully finished previously. As a person who has actually finished the rally I can't wait to hear from the peanut gallery of folks at their keyboards chittering away about how I should be doing something I have done and they haven't. Please...

Far from a hater of the brand I have enjoyed every mile on my bike right up until it failed.

Now if you have had a catastrophic failure of the main compute module, and had the entire programming sequence wiped so that the diagnostic equipment could not even read or write to the bike. I would like to know if it was the computer that failed or if it was something else on the bike that failed causing the computer to fail. Prior to the rally I posted about the transmission. The details best i have..

1) The transmission would randomly automagically upshift into neutral. My local dealer thought that it might be part of an engine management campaign and upgraded it before the rally. It appeared to fix it. It returned day 2. Hmmm.
2) The bike randomly locked itself as we were riding. i put this to the fob button getting pushed as we were riding spiritedly. Maybe? Maybe not? Now I wonder.
3) The starter would spin, but not engage the motor (the final straw that had us in the dealer). After a half dozen pokes at the starter it would finally work. Some suggested switch failure, but dealer says button push, then spin, something else is up.
4) The bike randomly unlocked itself twice. Again I put that to random button presses, but the fob is hanging loose on my jacket so maybe not.
5) The headlight twice didn't initialize (on, bounce, level).

I rode two thousand miles to the start after having the bike serviced. No issues in those 2K miles. Other than the neutral issue which we thought was fixed with several hundred miles testing. All of the rest reappeared or appeared new in the middle of the first leg of the rally.
 
#28 ·
As mentioned, I do know what it takes to finish an IBR, what it takes to lead one, and what it feels like to DNF. Dropping out for mechanical reasons sure does suck, but it's a dämn sight better than crashing out. Bikes are much easier to replace than bodies and bones . . .

To be fair, I'm basically saying the same things as other posters here, just with a bit more sympathy and personal understanding. And that is something that maybe the other responders should consider . . .

I put a lot of faith in my BMWs.
Just as I used to. Now I'm still riding BMWs, but with a much larger dose of healthy skepticism. Beemers still fit my riding style and needs better than anything else I've found so far, but if I find a bike that works better for me, I'm there. I simply haven't found one yet, so I stick with BMW, warts and all.

Part of this challenge was exactly to show that a BMW could run the entire Iron Butt Rally box stock and off the showroom floor.
And unfortunately for you, and for BMW's increasingly questionable reputation, you managed to prove that it can't always be done that way . . .

Do let us know what they eventually find, as I'm quite curious.

And I did enjoy your blog post. I could feel the frustration of months of prep and planning and tens of thousands of dollars all going up in smoke. Although I know it's heartbreaking, at least you both are safe.
 
#26 ·
Sam
Having been in a similar situation last year in the week before the Run For The Wall.
I can defiantly understand your problems and pain. I was some what lucky as my problems started before the ride. I was able to take a different bike but this caused almost $3000.00 in unplanned expense. I hope that you can get your problems solved quickly.
Spence
 
#27 ·
Thanks. I was actually thinking about your issues last night. I bet on the big k, and I figured it was less gamble and more guarantee of a great ride. We'll see what BMW NA figures out, and the holiday really messed with options to get it fixed. However, parts are supposed to be in route. Then we'll see if the magic smoke is released again or the bike makes like Lazarus.
 
#29 ·
Sam, There are apparently some asshats on here. They apparently have no clue how much cost, build-up and planning goes into an IBR run. Your write-up of the experience is good and I support whatever you can accomplish with BMW. The FACT is that BMW motorcycles are FAR less reliable than they once were. The electronics mean that a rally rider can no longer take along a decent tool kit and do most repairs roadside. Please people, the entry fee alone to run an IBR is $1,975 ($2350 two-up). When a bike leaves you stranded two days in, you cannot imagine the frustration.

Those of you who fault Sam for not riding a lot on this bike before the rally are off base. First he, did ride it and set it up. The issue that he has experienced is a computer issue. It could happen at ANY time, and no matter how much prep and break-in riding he had done, it still would/could have happened.

I was a finisher in the 2011 IBR, rode a low-key ride to be a finisher, am no big dog by a wide margin compared to Sam and Meese, but like Sam, did ride a bike with about 2,000 run-in miles (a 2011 GSA). While I had no warranty problems in the IBR, it is simply amazing how many key ring failures, fuel pump issues, rear drive failures, switchgear snafus, water pump problems, overheating conditions, drive lash, suspension squeak issues and other problems there are with BMWs. The folks on this thread saying things like "every bike breaks down" and accusing the OP of being a troll, and then defending BMW, are clueless and need to take a reality pill. When you say "my friend's Lamborghini broke down too," you show just how clueless you are. One is a bespoke high performance product that needs constant attention. The other is a frigging production motorcycle, sold for reliability and endurance. Saying such things impeaches credibility.

To you who are saying breakdowns are part of the deal - yeah we get that - for tires, wear items, etc. But those of us with a lot of experience on recent BMW's know the marque is going downhill - BMW has simply become unreliable. I am on my eighth new BMW since 2004, including a 2004 CLC, 2005 K1200LT, 2009 F800GS, 2011 R1200GSA, 2012 K1600GTL, 2014 K1600GTL Exclusive, 2014 R1200 GSA, and 2015 R9T. My wife also had a 2009 F650GS. Every one of those nine bikes except the R9T (which has only 500 miles) has left us stranded by the side of the road with electronic issues, not user serviceable, at least twice each. We ride a lot of miles, and including BMW rental bikes, we have been stranded over 20 times in the past nine years. You'd say we are crazy for keeping on with this marque, but there's no other choice in many of the places we ride. The worst situation was a broken rear swingarm suspension attachment point on a GSA in Tanzania, where a routine pothole sheared off the suspension, bringing our two-up Africa adventure to a literal screeching halt, and we had to proceed on a spare low-low 650GS because the nearest service was 5,000 miles away in Cape Town.

We all prepare to the level we think appropriate - and Sam, I think you prepared just fine. There is nothing more you could have done, and certainly nothing at all that would have revealed this fault. These machines are not boats, which do need to be run in because every boat is a custom deal. There are many, many adjustments to make on boats (I currently own seven with motors, including two oyster farm workboats, an offshore fishing boat, two blue water sailboats, and a couple jet skis). Motorcycles are not the same thing. We are constantly testing and tweaking the boats. However, anyone should be able to get on a stock motorcycle and have it run reliably, with scheduled maintenance, for many thousands of miles with NO warranty service. Warranty service should be an exception. Every one of the 20+ failures on our BMW rides in the past nine years have been under warranty and every one has been hundreds or thousands of miles from the nearest BMW dealer, and most required diagnosis and parts to be ordered. This IS unacceptable and your sentiments are perfectly correct. You have every right to be pissed.

I am friendly with the owners of several well-known BMW dealers. There isn't a single dealer in the US who is happy with BMW design and engineering in recent years. They have constant hassles dealing with the mother ship, and universally believe these bikes are over-engineered and under-tested. Those of us with K1600's since 2012 (I had a pre-order bike) KNOW this to be a fact. I believe, but cannot prove, that there isn't a single K1600 with significant miles that has avoided at least a switch replacement. I have had several switches replaced, including disabling starting issues, and others. Some issues, like the water pump leaking, have been less fatal to ongoing rides, but drive the dealerships crazy, and were unnecessary if proper factory testing were done.

To put this in context, we find that the complexity of BMW motorcycles is now to the point that it is nearly impossible to be ready for all eventualities. In June I shipped our 2014 R1200GSA to Riga, Latvia from the port of New York. It arrived there last week, and my wife and I will soon join it to ride the Ayres Adventures Epic Adventure from Riga, through Estonia, Russia, Kazakhstan, Siberia, Mongolia, China, ending in Hong Kong in October. In the side cases were stashed a spare final drive and a complete fuel pump assembly with related floats, electronics and seals. The cases also hold a spare key ring, spark plugs, and a bunch of other small items like brake and clutch handles. This was well over $5,000 of spares for our upcoming adventure. That is in addition to standard spares like oil, filters, tires and brake pads. Even with all that, I lose sleep, envisioning a cold rainy dirt mountain pass in Mongolia, and an ECU failure. We are not taking a spare ECU, or many other electronics like ABS units, because they require dealer activation and software implementation - there are many things that can go wrong on this trip that would end in a shuttle ride to the nearest airport and an aborted trip - because it has become virtually impossible to ride a BMW and maintain it ourselves given the admittedly wonderful electronics on these bikes - wonderful when they work. A broken wheel or smashed light I can understand. A failed ECU, I cannot.

I hope my wife does not read this thread because I have been telling her how prepared we are for this trip, but will say here that the more I think about it, the less confidence I have. This thread, and Sam's experience caused me to inventory the motorcycle breakdowns that we've experienced, and then consider how remote this trip will be at times, and I conclude it borders on irresponsible. Sam had a dealer nearly right there on the spot, and yet even THEY could not get him back on the road in a day or two. The only saving grace in our plan is that we will have a support van and a bail-out strategy that includes a way to transport broken bikes, but there will be no spare bikes for the 13 BMW's that are going on this trip. I will be truly shocked if BMW engineering does not fail at least one couple or rider on this trip in a catastrophic (ride-ending) fashion. Every one of the bikes that await us in Riga is a late model (2012-2015) GS of some sort (F800, F700, R1200, GSA). I hope that I am wrong, but the issues we have experienced in recent years, and those being reported here and elsewhere by riders like Sam are about BMW engineering, not about being prepared.

We depend on these bikes and deserve better. They may be expensive toys, but some of us use them as intended - to go to far away places. They have to be more reliable. Instead, they are becoming less so. Sam, I understand why you feel crushed. Those of you who chose to jump in here and thrash Sam should be ashamed, and owe him an apology.

Dave
 
#30 ·
The electronics mean that a rally rider can no longer take along a decent tool kit and do most repairs roadside
That's my #1 cause of paranoia about this bike... I wonder if any of the IBR guys run with a GS-911 unit.
 
#31 ·
Ironically, it is the electronics systems of the BMWs that have proven to be the most reliable. What has plagued BMW has been old technology components: water pumps, switches, shock absorbers failures and squeaks, drive train clunking, piston/ring problems, rear drive gearbox failures, etc. Now if the electronic systems start to fail, it may be time to move on to a different brand.
 
#32 ·
Sam, I feel bad that you had all that time, $$$$ and emotions invested, only to have the bike fail on you.

If by the "main computer" the control unit (13 61 8 542 304 CONTROL UNIT - BMS-X) I have a "spare" one sitting in my garage that you can have it will work for you.

Don't know if it will fit your bike. I think you have the "exclusive" while mine is from a GTL (13 61 8 529 127 CONTROL UNIT - BMS-X)



Check with your dealer to see if it will at least work for you.

You can email me directly at scott.foster AT me.com

Scott
 
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