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-   -   15 % Ethanol (https://www.k1600forum.com/forum/bmw-k1600-general-discussions/184282-15-%25-ethanol.html)

DanDiver 10-09-2018 05:11 AM

15 % Ethanol
 
Has anyone run this in your bike? I seem to notice less range out of a tank of 10% and guess that this latest move to 15% will also reduce it some more. Pretty sure the bikes can handle it, but I know that with marine engines, there was a lot of concern on the move to 10% and if 10 becomes 15, marine fuel, with higher octane additives is going to get more expensive. It might be time to do the same for my bike !

K16GTW 10-09-2018 08:21 AM

Have not seen 15% at pump yet here in ct I only use shell v-power 10% . I under stand further north in vt some stations don’t use ethanol. Corn is for eating not burning silver queen the best corn season almost over 😫

reggiehammond 10-09-2018 10:24 AM

New 15% pumps in DFW all have a warning that say do not use unless your vehicle is specifically tagged as being "flexfuel" compliant.

RL Lemke 10-09-2018 11:09 AM

There are few metals ethanol doesn't corrode.

There are few plastics ethanol doesn't consume.

Ethanol absorbs the moisture from humid air, making for phase separation in any gas that sits for a while.

Warranties will NOT cover damage from ethanol in greater than 10% contamination amounts.

The only benefit from 15%, and later 20%, is for the farmers and farm land prices. The Gulf of Mexico Dead Zone will continue to consume all life as it grows. A byproduct of the required fertilization use to grow corn.

Rider2 10-09-2018 02:53 PM

I saw a pump recently (forget where, somewhere in VA?) that had 6 buttons and 3 hoses: diesel, regular (E10) corn gas in 3 octane levels, and E15/E85 corn gas. So just like the E10 pumps mixes 87 and 93 to get 89 octane, maybe the E15/E85 hose mixes E10 with E85 to get E15?

nigelhobbes 10-09-2018 05:30 PM

Pretty lucky here in NV, we can get 91 octane almost everywhere. Some stations have ethanol free 90 octane.

I used this several times in western Canada this past summer.

https://photos.smugmug.com/2018-Moto...0Octane-X2.jpg

jjscsix 10-09-2018 06:04 PM

Our President is trying to make the farmers like him again.

RL Lemke 10-09-2018 06:44 PM

The idea of renewable energy is all well and good.

Ethanol is wrong because all our engines are designed for gasoline. Even the flex-fuel engines suffer a dramatic fuel mileage loss using ethanol, the more ethanol the less the mileage. Even 10% ethanol will reduce gas mileage.

Using food for fuel, even the dent corn that feeds cattle, is a bad use in light of the wealth of energy coming from the ground today.

The damage to small engines and older vehicles is inexcusable.

But, boil everything down to the quick, and as long as Iowa has the first primary, we will continue with this monster agricultural subsidy in the guise of the renewable fuel mandate.

Rider2 10-09-2018 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RL Lemke (Post 2353732)
The idea of renewable energy is all well and good.

Ethanol is wrong because all our engines are designed for gasoline. Even the flex-fuel engines suffer a dramatic fuel mileage loss using ethanol, the more ethanol the less the mileage. Even 10% ethanol will reduce gas mileage.

Ethanol has a lower energy content than gasoline. Ask anyone who's tried to make coffee on an alcohol stove! If you want the same energy from a low-energy fuel, you need more of it, hence higher fuel consumption.

These days all of our engines are designed to be compatible with E10 corn gas, and have been for over 15 years. I are not a ingenur but I think it's primarily a materials issue (chemically and dimensionally stable in ethanol AND gasoline) more than anything else. Some tweaks to the ECU to spritz more gas depending on what the O2 sensor says. Probably you need more sophisticated matierials, electronics, and sensors if you're going to E85 though.

I'm not well-enough versed in the issues to understand why 15% ETOH is a terrible, very bad, awful level but 10% is a fine, no problem, everything will be OK level. Is there some chemical thing that happens at 13% - chances of phase separation become huge so now there's lots of water to contend with?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RL Lemke (Post 2353732)
Using food for fuel, even the dent corn that feeds cattle, is a bad use in light of the wealth of energy coming from the ground today.

Going down that road gets you to the place where you realize growing grain to feed cattle (swine, poultry) that are slaughtered for food is really inefficient. It takes about 4 lb of grain and 150 gallons of water for one pound of meat, why not just eat the grain? There's unused capacity in corn production so I don't see that as an issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RL Lemke (Post 2353732)
The damage to small engines and older vehicles is inexcusable.

But, boil everything down to the quick, and as long as Iowa has the first primary, we will continue with this monster agricultural subsidy in the guise of the renewable fuel mandate.

If [that word does a lot of work here] E15 massively damages engines I agree. If it's a matter of BMW not wanting to do the compatibility testing that 's a different issue. I see plenty of older cars not designed for E10 (say, before 2000) that seem to be running OK. My state apparently says it's illegal to sell pure gas ("E0") as a motor fuel (pure-gas.org shows zero stations, not even a marina) and folks using a 20-year-old car as a daily driver aren't going to drive for hours just to get E0 gas.

You're right about the importance of keeping Iowa's corn farmers happy. But remember, a lot of those Real American Farmers are paid by Archer Daniels Midland and Cargill, and they're the real constituency for farm (and ethanol) policy.

WayneDW 10-09-2018 08:23 PM

As someone who grew up on a farm in Iowa I'm torn re the ethanol issue. I like it when farmers have more market for their product which equals more profit. That profit has personally positively effected my checking account. But as a hunter I hate it when more and more wildlife habitat is plowed up to grow more ethanol. That plus the alleged harm to vehicles means I'm against mandated 15% gas-ahol.

Here in MN all gas stations have mandated 10% ethanol. Some offer 15% ethanol at about a nickel a gallon discount which they encourage drivers to put in all gasoline engine fuel tanks. Some also offer 85% ethanol for flex fuel only. Some also have high octane, no ethanol gas for "off road vehicles, sports cars and motorcycles". The later is what I try to find for my K1600 but am not always able to. I made sure I found some before I put the bike up for the winter, plus gas stabilizer.


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