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-   -   Honda going after the K1600 B market (https://www.k1600forum.com/forum/bmw-k1600-general-discussions/187542-honda-going-after-k1600-b-market.html)

Scott Titensor 04-03-2019 01:17 PM

Honda going after the K1600 B market
 
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sour...54388972021487



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bert111bel 04-03-2019 01:38 PM

love the goldwing too....

evomind 04-03-2019 01:46 PM

Or maybe BMW went after the F6B market?
LOL
Nice bike, disappointed they didn't come out with a bigger/more powerful motor.
Love the riding position and the electronics.

phat6 04-03-2019 01:52 PM

Doubt it, or at least doubt it will be effective.


Ridden Hondas my entire life until I bought my B. The last new Honda I bought was the Rune. Still own it--sweet machine. So why did I choose to a buy a non-Honda for the first time in my life? Honda has been sitting on their complacent butts in regard to power for nearly two decades. While they were sleeping, I test rode the BMW K1600GTL when it first came out. Loved the power, was not comfortable on the bike, and was neither inspired nor horrified by the styling. Waited for Honda to bring more power in response to the K1600. Nothing . . . nothing . . . 3 years . . . 5 years . . . nothing . . . then the K1600B came out, which fixed a lot of the comfort issues, and I like the styling much better. I still continued to hold off the itch for another year. Still nothing from Honda. Bought a K1600B.



So here comes yet another variant on the Goldwing, with still no increase in power. Waste of marketing, engineering, and manufacturing bandwidth. Nowhere near as sexy as the Rune (manufactured 15 years ago at this point). I hear there is a new Valkyrie coming also, with more styling cues from the Rune, but still not as good, and still no increase in power. The Rune, a bike manufactured by Honda 15 years ago, has way better styling and just as much power as what they are producing today.



What would get me to buy another Honda? How about a 240 hp, 2444 cc, Flat-8, 240 rear equipped, Rune II with another forward-warping style revolution?


Same old Goldwing with different tupperware? Wake TF up, Honda!

evomind 04-03-2019 02:05 PM

Yeah, they could have easily come out with the rumored 2000cc flat six and made 160hp plus but I think they figured their sales are strong enough.
Complacent?
Perhaps.
Maybe if enough of them are left on showroom floors we will see a new engine in it in a few years.
We could only hope, competition makes all brands better.

jfink 04-03-2019 02:07 PM

Interesting. This must be an article for the British market. The STANDARD Goldwing model was available here in 2018.

phat6 04-03-2019 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evomind (Post 2396774)
Yeah, they could have easily come out with the rumored 2000cc flat six and made 160hp


2000cc would require much more re-engineering. A 2444 cc Flat-8 would be adding 2 cylinders to the current 1833, using the same pistons, rings, valves, etc.


Once upon a time, Honda would bring more power to cruising and touring than anyone else. They would not even consider relasing a 160 if 160 was already on the market. Remember the GL1000 when it first arrived? 1000 F-4?! on a motorcycle?! Same response to the 1520 F-6. Same response to the VTX1800 when it first came out. Same response to the 1832 F-6.


Last two big moves?
  1. How about moving large motorcycle production from the USA (Marysville, Ohio) to Japan?
  2. How about the massive engine size increase in the 2019 Goldwing redesign? 1832cc to 1833cc, no power change--no, not kidding, look it up.





Quote:

Originally Posted by evomind (Post 2396774)
but I think they figured their sales are strong enough.


So the new variant is for . . . ?




Quote:

Originally Posted by evomind (Post 2396774)
Complacent?


Yes. Complacent. Ironically, complacent like the US auto industry before the Japanese auto makers (e.g. Honda) came in force to the US market.


They are allowing the competition to make headway into the space they used to "own". The Triumph Rocket III, the BMW K1600 series, even Harley, after years of sitting on their complacent butts, is starting to move a little. Seen the 2019 FXDRS? Perhaps not competitive yet, but not something they would have built a few years ago.

evomind 04-03-2019 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phat6 (Post 2396780)
2000cc would require much more re-engineering. A 2444 cc Flat-8 would be adding 2 cylinders to the current 1833, using the same pistons, rings, valves, etc.


Once upon a time, Honda would bring more power to cruising and touring than anyone else. They would not even consider relasing a 160 if 160 was already on the market. Remember the GL1000 when it first arrived? 1000 F-4?! on a motorcycle?! Same response to the 1520 F-6. Same response to the VTX1800 when it first came out. Same response to the 1832 F-6.


Last two big moves?
  1. How about moving large motorcycle production from the USA (Marysville, Ohio) to Japan?
  2. How about the massive engine size increase in the 2019 Goldwing redesign? 1832cc to 1833cc, no power change--no, not kidding, look it up.








So the new variant is for . . . ?







Yes. Complacent. Ironically, complacent like the US auto industry before the Japanese auto makers (e.g. Honda) came in force to the US market.


They are allowing the competition to make headway into the space they used to "own". The Triumph Rocket III, the BMW K1600 series, even Harley, after years of sitting on their complacent butts, is starting to move a little. Seen the 2019 FXDRS? Perhaps not competitive yet, but not something they would have built a few years ago.

I agree with you.
I actually had a VTX1800 when it came out. Kinda defined the "power cruiser" of its day. Great bike. Then the m109 came out, the rocket 3.....(both of which I owned)
The Rune was so cool in its day (still is) and the valkyrie was cool as well. Both were runners. That GW engine was strong, esp in lighter bikes. Props to honda for making a "production custom."
Honda had a short time period where their motto was "performance first."
I think that's long gone.
I mentioned the 2000cc engine because I heard they had pretty much finished that engine before the new wing came out and there was a lot of speculation it would be in the new wing.
I suspect honda is being honda and selling what they can now and keeping it in their back pocket to give them a sales boost at some point.
IDK.

I almost considered buying an f6b when that came out but i couldn't find a dealer who would let me test ride one.
BMW throws you the keys and says see ya in a few hours.

That said, I believe honda (and others) moved the bar in the electronics dept as far as the entertainment system and dash screens etc. Very appealing.
Im sure that will inspire BMW and everyone wins.

RefCat 04-03-2019 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evomind (Post 2396774)
Yeah, they could have easily come out with the rumored 2000cc flat six and made 160hp plus but I think they figured their sales are strong enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phat6 (Post 2396780)
2000cc would require much more re-engineering. A 2444 cc Flat-8 would be adding 2 cylinders to the current 1833, using the same pistons, rings, valves, etc.

That engine is already big enough. Adding 2 more cylinders to the existing arrangment would be a non-starter. They really need to make it more power efficient. The K1600 is getting a lot more HP/Torque out of a substantially smaller engine, both in CC's and physical size.

evomind 04-03-2019 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RefCat (Post 2396792)
That engine is already big enough. Adding 2 more cylinders to the existing arrangment would be a non-starter. They really need to make it more power efficient. The K1600 is getting a lot more HP/Torque out of a substantially smaller engine, both in CC's and physical size.

Im not advocating any particular engine, just reporting that the speculation was they had a 2000cc engine ready to go before the GW came out.
The Honda guys were shocked when the GW was announced with the engine it has.


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