Cold start stalls - BMW K1600 Forum : BMW K1600 GT and GTL Forums
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post #1 of 34 Old 11-01-2019, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
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Cold start stalls

My 2015 GTL (only 16000 Km) has recently been hard to start when cold. It will fire for about 1 sec and stall. Start again and runs for 1 sec and stalls. Takes about 4-5 start attempts to finally run.
Had it in for annual service last week and they said I needed a new battery ($200 CAD!!) and that they did a flash upgrade on my onboard controllers.
Tried to start after I got home when it had cooled overnight - same thing.
I checked the fuel pressure with my GS-911 and it looks OK (about 4700 mbar (68 psi) before start and about 4500 mbar (65 psi) running
It seems to me that there is insufficient cold start fuel enrichment????

Anyone else experienced this problem???
I don't want to take it back to the dealer (and just have them replace more parts) unless I have a clue as to what might be wrong

Thx
Jim

PS I've attached all the software/firmware changes that were made when they did this upgrade from the mother ship - for info. Quite a few changes!!!
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2015 K1600GTL , Magnesium beige, Nav V
1970 Plymouth Superbird 440-6bbl
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible (6.1 L Hemi transplant)
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Fastback 340, Formula S
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post #2 of 34 Old 11-01-2019, 10:25 PM
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The only issue my 2015 had with starting was directly attributable to the lack of CCA from the battery to the starter. It's rare for a fuel injected engine to do what you are describing, have you considered bad gas or stagnant gas a potential cause? I mention this because people love to leave their bikes all cocooned up in the garage thinking this is what is best for them when it's definitely not.

Winter time, clear-ish roads - run the fokker like you stole it for at least 20 miles or more once a month or so. That will discourage degradation of seals, condensate build up etc. I'm not a proponent of fuel additives, the simple answer to engine stagnation is just ride the **** thing.

Have you scanned for error codes? Even when the bike was mostly doing what it should, the ECU would log small glitches. Running live diagnostics while you use the bike is another option too, after I fixed mine and re-assembled it I left it plugged in under the seat and took it out for a check ride while it fed live data to my phone.

Aside from looking for codes what comes to mind is fouled injectors or a spark delivery issue.
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post #3 of 34 Old 11-01-2019, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
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Very unlikely to be bad gas. I use only top tier fuel (Shell V Power, 91 Octane at present) that has no ethanol. I use this same fuel from same supplier in some of my other vehicles and no problems.

No error codes when scanned with my GS-911. If there were some injector or ignition issues, I think they would show up on a scan??
On the road, I don't baby it and in the twisties, I definitely don't baby it!!!

Not really possible to run it on the road once per month in the winter here in Ontario, Canada!! However it is kept in a heated garage that has an industrial dehumidifier to ensure low humidity.

I havent tried to connect my GS-911 wi-fi to my iPhone., however it runs perfectly on the road and starts immediately when warm and starts immediately right after I get it running after this cold start issue occurs.

2015 K1600GTL , Magnesium beige, Nav V
1970 Plymouth Superbird 440-6bbl
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible (6.1 L Hemi transplant)
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Fastback 340, Formula S
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post #4 of 34 Old 11-01-2019, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RealWing View Post
My 2015 GTL (only 16000 Km) has recently been hard to start when cold. It will fire for about 1 sec and stall. Start again and runs for 1 sec and stalls. Takes about 4-5 start attempts to finally run.

Had it in for annual service last week and they said I needed a new battery ($200 CAD!!) and that they did a flash upgrade on my onboard controllers.

Tried to start after I got home when it had cooled overnight - same thing.

I checked the fuel pressure with my GS-911 and it looks OK (about 4700 mbar (68 psi) before start and about 4500 mbar (65 psi) running

It seems to me that there is insufficient cold start fuel enrichment????



Anyone else experienced this problem???

I don't want to take it back to the dealer (and just have them replace more parts) unless I have a clue as to what might be wrong



Thx

Jim



PS I've attached all the software/firmware changes that were made when they did this upgrade from the mother ship - for info. Quite a few changes!!!


how did you do to access the software firmware information ? With your GS-911WIFI ? Thank’s


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K1600 GTL 2018 AND F850GS 2019, K1600 GTL 2012 (sold), K1200 GT 2007 (sold), R1100RT 2000 (sold) and many other...
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post #5 of 34 Old 11-02-2019, 02:20 AM
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if the air cleaner/filter is anywhere easy to get to, you could shoot some starting fuid into it while trying one of these cold weather starts. If that helps, then you've answered your question about a cold weather/fuel enrichment problem.

I can't recall ignition problems ever arising because of cold weather. I don't think electrons jumping across an air gap care what the temperature is.



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post #6 of 34 Old 11-02-2019, 03:49 AM
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Have you reset the adaptation, throttle etc

R80/7RT / K75RT / R1200RT / K1600 GTL - in the U.K.
Also Rans ( Honda C90 & CD175 & CX500 & ST1100, Suzuki GT250 (J) & X7, Puch Maxi), Coveted Honda CBX, Yamaha Martini XS 1300 & FS1E, Kawasaki Z900, Z1000 & Z650, Quasar, Suzuki GT750
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post #7 of 34 Old 11-02-2019, 08:26 AM
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Well, if you are having this problem in Ontario at this time of year, kudos for riding! (it is 33' here this morning).

The hard running problem is not related to your battery problem as proposed by your dealer. If the engine is turning its not your battery, and the engine is self sustaining once it is running. However, you may need a new battery simply because it doesn't test well. But... if you really do need a battery, you can get the PC680 here. There are several things that can keep the engine from running, but the basics, fuel, air, spark, compression, timing, all of these things eventually sort themselves out for you so one of them is causing a problem in the beginning. Of those, the suspects are air and gas. The engine will measure ambient air temperature as a way of calculating air density to set its Fuel/Air ratio. When it gets too cold or you are at altitude the management system only has so many options in controlling the F/A ratio and it will be harder to start the engine. If you are going from a warm garage to outside before starting that can fool the engine. I have seen it happen in some cases where even starting the vehicle with the garage door open (heated garage, unheated gaia) and having the engine suck in hyper cold outside air caused problems. Your air cleaner @16k is probably not the problem but it doesn't hurt to check. I would not rule out gas just because you use one gas station or brand, it just makes it less likely to be gas, but not impossible. In the snowmobile i always use the same gas station for local rides but they have had a bad batch of gas before.

2012 BMW K1600GTL
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post #8 of 34 Old 11-02-2019, 09:17 AM
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Jim,
A group of us were recently riding around Alpine, AZ and most all of us noted cold start burps on the chilly mornings.
Everyone fired up after a couple of sputters, but as @bbolesaz (Brian) noted, it looked like BMW did not put a cold start algorithm into the ECU.
For us, it was not a major hassle, just required a couple of extra attempts. Everything ran fine in just a few moments after a short idle.


Clay
2012 GTL
2003 LT
2001 Harley T-Sport
2001 Harley T-Sport (crashed @ Tortilla Flats)
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post #9 of 34 Old 11-02-2019, 10:49 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-bmw View Post
how did you do to access the software firmware information ? With your GS-911WIFI ? Thank’s


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Yes, with the GS-911
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2015 K1600GTL , Magnesium beige, Nav V
1970 Plymouth Superbird 440-6bbl
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible (6.1 L Hemi transplant)
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Fastback 340, Formula S
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post #10 of 34 Old 11-02-2019, 10:54 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mole999 View Post
Have you reset the adaptation, throttle etc
I havent done that. I assume that the dealer did that when they flashed the new software last week, but I don’t know for sure
I’ll do it tobe sure

2015 K1600GTL , Magnesium beige, Nav V
1970 Plymouth Superbird 440-6bbl
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible (6.1 L Hemi transplant)
1969 Plymouth Barracuda Fastback 340, Formula S
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