Engine Braking and/or Trail Braking? - Page 4 - BMW K1600 Forum : BMW K1600 GT and GTL Forums
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post #31 of 40 Old 11-01-2019, 09:47 AM
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Times have changed, e.g... I attended Lee Parks "Total Control" course about 15 years ago. Towards the end the instructors barely touched on 'trail braking' describing it as a very advanced technique used by racers. Fast forward to last weekend, a good friend of mine on an RT took the same course in Woodbridge, VA. Trail Braking was taught from the start of and emphasized throughout the course. JJ said trail braking was taught to be used 100% of the time on the street because it drastically increases rider safety. I agree. I've been trail braking 24/7 going on 3 years. You'd have to ask those that ride with me if I'm quicker, but I know I'm safer..

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post #32 of 40 Old 11-01-2019, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
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Times have changed, e.g... I attended Lee Parks "Total Control" course about 15 years ago. Towards the end the instructors barely touched on 'trail braking' describing it as a very advanced technique used by racers. Fast forward to last weekend and I good friend of mine on an RT took the same course in Woodbridge, VA. Trail Braking was taught from the start of and emphasized throughout the course. JJ said trail braking was taught to be used 100% of the time on the street because it drastically increases rider safety. I agree. I've been trail braking 24/7 going on 3 years. You'd have to ask those that ride with me if I'm quicker, but I know I'm safer..



Duane


Thanks Duane, was just looking online re the courses. Based on your experience and knowledge of these courses would you recommend starting off with the Beginner or Intermediate course for those that have logged many miles but without any formal training?

I am guessing your friend took the Intermediate at the very least where they talk about the throttle/braking on web. TIA.


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post #33 of 40 Old 11-01-2019, 12:52 PM
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@Thomas , he took the Advanced Riders Course 1. If you've been riding for years without formal training this is the course you should attend first. My friend, JJ, was a 'bar hopper' for years who became a 'motorcyclist' 3 years ago when he purchased an R1200RT. I consider JJ a fairly new rider and the ARC1 was perfect for him.

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post #34 of 40 Old 11-01-2019, 01:02 PM
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Perfect. Thanks Duane.


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post #35 of 40 Old 11-03-2019, 04:00 PM
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Times have changed, e.g... I attended Lee Parks "Total Control" course about 15 years ago. Towards the end the instructors barely touched on 'trail braking' describing it as a very advanced technique used by racers. Fast forward to last weekend, a good friend of mine on an RT took the same course in Woodbridge, VA. Trail Braking was taught from the start of and emphasized throughout the course. JJ said trail braking was taught to be used 100% of the time on the street because it drastically increases rider safety. I agree. I've been trail braking 24/7 going on 3 years. You'd have to ask those that ride with me if I'm quicker, but I know I'm safer..

Duane
Exactly! Just normal riding.
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post #36 of 40 Old 11-03-2019, 06:56 PM
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As many others have mentioned, I've been using trail braking for many years without even realizing it. I use it on EVERY corner EXCEPT in conditions that indicate I might have less than adequate traction in an emergency (wet corners, ice melt slime, sand/gravel/aggregate, etc.). Yes, ice melt slime (for lack of a better term) has just been laid down in all the corners above 1500' on the highway I live on - Oregon Hwy. 138, the Umpqua/Rogue scenic byway. I live at 2500'. So yesterday I rode the GTL following the river down-valley the 1-hour minimum into town for my annual fill-up of non-ethanol premium, when I noticed the wet looking appearance of this crap they're already spraying down to minimize winter ice formation.

New to me, I decided to test the traction on this gelatinous-looking crud in a "controlled" experiment. Ie, it seemed to offer pretty good traction, but just how much traction would it provide in an emergency mid-corner full stop if a tree was suddenly lying across the road? So I scouted for a section that allowed full braking while not leaned over in the slightest. Air temp was 52 degrees at 3:00 in the afternoon. Lo and behold, the ABS kicked in WAY before it would have on a dry section of asphalt. Glad I confirmed that! Now I treat these corners as wet and brake well before initiating the turn, and treat the corner with a great deal of respect.

Back to emergency maneuvers mid-corner. This past summer I trail braked into a corner as usual (ie, read: spirited riding), picked my line and then saw a soft-ball sized rock in the middle of my lane. I spotted it in plenty of time, but picked the wrong action: I opted a high deviation to my line. This might have been fine except that it also turned out to be a decreasing radius turn. Luckily nothing was coming on the other side of the double yellow, as that is where I quickly ended up. And yes, it happened VERY FAST. Lesson learned: if a deviation is called for, select the low side to miss an obstacle so as not to become another M/C rider statistic.

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post #37 of 40 Old 11-03-2019, 07:09 PM
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As many others have mentioned, I've been using trail braking for many years without even realizing it. I use it on EVERY corner EXCEPT in conditions that indicate I might have less than adequate traction in an emergency (wet corners, ice melt slime, sand/gravel/aggregate, etc.). Yes, ice melt slime (for lack of a better term) has just been laid down in all the corners above 1500' on the highway I live on - Oregon Hwy. 138, the Umpqua/Rogue scenic byway. I live at 2500'. So yesterday I rode the GTL following the river down-valley the 1-hour minimum into town for my annual fill-up of non-ethanol premium, when I noticed the wet looking appearance of this crap they're already spraying down to minimize winter ice formation.

New to me, I decided to test the traction on this gelatinous-looking crud in a "controlled" experiment. Ie, it seemed to offer pretty good traction, but just how much traction would it provide in an emergency mid-corner full stop if a tree was suddenly lying across the road? So I scouted for a section that allowed full braking while not leaned over in the slightest. Air temp was 52 degrees at 3:00 in the afternoon. Lo and behold, the ABS kicked in WAY before it would have on a dry section of asphalt. Glad I confirmed that! Now I treat these corners as wet and brake well before initiating the turn, and treat the corner with a great deal of respect.

Back to emergency maneuvers mid-corner. This past summer I trail braked into a corner as usual (ie, read: spirited riding), picked my line and then saw a soft-ball sized rock in the middle of my lane. I spotted it in plenty of time, but picked the wrong action: I opted a high deviation to my line. This might have been fine except that it also turned out to be a decreasing radius turn. Luckily nothing was coming on the other side of the double yellow, as that is where I quickly ended up. And yes, it happened VERY FAST. Lesson learned: if a deviation is called for, select the low side to miss an obstacle so as not to become another M/C rider statistic.

Thanks for experimenting and sharing the results!
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post #38 of 40 Old 11-09-2019, 12:46 PM
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A long time riderís perspective on trail braking and lean angle and an example of you donít know what you donít know.

https://www.cycleworld.com/yamaha-ch...m_medium=email
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post #39 of 40 Old 11-10-2019, 02:16 PM
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A long time riderís perspective on trail braking and lean angle and an example of you donít know what you donít know.

https://www.cycleworld.com/yamaha-ch...m_medium=email
Do you need a subscription to view the article? I didn't get any article content.

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post #40 of 40 Old 11-10-2019, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Straty1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by d martin View Post
A long time rider’s perspective on trail braking and lean angle and an example of you don’t know what you don’t know.

https://www.cycleworld.com/yamaha-ch...m_medium=email
Do you need a subscription to view the article? I didn't get any article content.

Chuck
Nope

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