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Having a consultation with an Attorney who knows the appropriate laws and can provide productive advice is a good thing. I'd never argue against that. But my personal opinion is to inject an Attorney into the situation at this point would be counterproductive. The root problem(s) haven't been nailed down yet. The Dealer and BMW/NA are still actively looking at the bike. Of course they'd prefer to just fix it, but nothing has been definitively taken off the table. There is still a chance for satisfactory resolution without jumping into a blood bath.

Again, if an Attorney gets involved, BMW/NA shuts down the current process and the legal games begin. That might be the final resolution, but there is no reason to play that card -- yet.
 

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Interesting perspective on the BMW (Auto and Motorcycle) divisions. My customer experience in both has been positive. I had hard to track down rattles in my new 2013 335i, and BMW spent incredible money/effort (including replacing my steering rack) to fix all issues. As I've documented previously, they replace my GTL engine due to excessive oil consumption. Even though I wish the process had been less painful. :oops:

Fair or not, the one common thread in my experience has been backing by the respective dealerships. On the auto side, the GM was a close friend of a close friend (who made the original referral), so I was never going to be left hanging. On the Motorrad side, I had purchased 3 BMW motorcycles over 15+ years from the same dealer, plus many (many) thousands spent on accessories and service. Never discount the clout that type of customer relationship gives you. They'll never be your "friend", but they'll do everything they can to keep the golden goose alive.

In business, relationships mean everything. At least that's been my experience all the way around.
My experience has been positive on both sides as well. What I have experienced here is ownership turnover of the various dealerships. The Motorrad dealer where I bought my first three BMW's went out of business four or five years ago. So I followed my mechanic to his new dealership and the service relationship there has been fine. They are a multi-line dealer though and BMW is just one of many lines they offer. I was not able to complete my GA purchase with them but rather bought from another dealer who seems to get much more product due (I assume) to only two lines (BMW/Ducati) and/or multiple BMW dealerships in the ownership structure.

My auto dealership(s) OTOH are both exclusive BMW franchises and the impression I get is that corporate is much more involved and integral there. Still - there has been ownership turnover here too and that I suspect is why my perception is that BMW corporate is not aware of just how much of their product I have purchased over the years. Big assumption on my part. Maybe I just need to buy more of the highest end merch to hit their radar. Or maybe I'm already on the radar but they are just quiet. I'm not in any way displeased regardless. I'm not very special and I don't need anybody to try and make me feel that way. I do really like it though when I drop my X3 off for an oil change and they give me an 8 series for a loaner. I just harbor this irrational fear that I'm going to bend the **** thing.
 

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I was a service mgr for a heavy equipment dealer for 35 years. Everyone expects things to happen right now. Let things run there course. Let the dealer and the factory try and get things worked out first. As much as we would like for things to happen over night it usually does work that way. lf you tell the the BMW factory rep your attorney will be getting hold of them the rep will most likely back away and let the legal boys take over & things will really get drawn out. I am not saying don’t talk to your lawyer just keep them in your pocket for right now. Buybacks on car, bikes etc. are hard to come by. I would guess you will get a new motor and some kind of extended warranty. We all love our bikes but Motorcycles are a piece of machinery sometimes things break. Not everyone is trying to screw you over, not saying it doesn’t happen through. Hopefully things get worked out quickly for you. Good luck.
 

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My auto dealership(s) OTOH are both exclusive BMW franchises and the impression I get is that corporate is much more involved and integral there. Still - there has been ownership turnover here too and that I suspect is why my perception is that BMW corporate is not aware of just how much of their product I have purchased over the years. Big assumption on my part. Maybe I just need to buy more of the highest end merch to hit their radar. Or maybe I'm already on the radar but they are just quiet. I'm not in any way displeased regardless. I'm not very special and I don't need anybody to try and make me feel that way. I do really like it though when I drop my X3 off for an oil change and they give me an 8 series for a loaner. I just harbor this irrational fear that I'm going to bend the **** thing.
We live in a tiered world. The more you spend, the more perks you get back in return. I'm reminded of that every time I fly coach on an airline where I'm not a member of a rewards program. :oops: This is one of the main reasons I try to be a repeat customer at quality auto/motorcycle outlets. I believe it made a difference for engine replacement at my BMW bike dealer. It's not necessarily trying to be special. Instead, it's a recognition of how business works in general.

I don't know where the OP lives. But in California, he hasn't yet met the criteria for filing a Lemon Law claim. It's important to first go through the appropriate steps to make a subsequent legal case credible. It was several weeks of tear down on my engine before we got to the moment of reckoning. It's not fun, but certain things have to first take their course.
 

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Technical Report to BMW NA.
I would be inclined to express my disappointment in not being given a loaner bike especially over the independence day weekend.

I would also say you feel uncomfortable about accepting a repaired engine especially as it's clear the first repair hasn't solved the problem and it's unclear what the root cause is.

Also, when my M5 engine blew up, BMW replaced it and gave the engine a new warranty.

So in the end I would be asking for a replacement bike for immediate use or forever. If they want to give you the fixed bike then you need a new engine with new warranty to feel comfortable.

I know you say you trade after a few years but things change. I normally trade when something interests me. But if, in a couple of years, nothing compelling is out there then I won't bother.

I ended up keeping my M5 when I bought my new car because my next car wasn't a big 5 seater and, anyway, it has a new engine and I know the history.
 

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I would be inclined to express my disappointment in not being given a loaner bike especially over the independence day weekend.

I would also say you feel uncomfortable about accepting a repaired engine especially as it's clear the first repair hasn't solved the problem and it's unclear what the root cause is.

Also, when my M5 engine blew up, BMW replaced it and gave the engine a new warranty.

So in the end I would be asking for a replacement bike for immediate use or forever. If they want to give you the fixed bike then you need a new engine with new warranty to feel comfortable.

I know you say you trade after a few years but things change. I normally trade when something interests me. But if, in a couple of years, nothing compelling is out there then I won't bother.

I ended up keeping my M5 when I bought my new car because my next car wasn't a big 5 seater and, anyway, it has a new engine and I know the history.
And let's not forget the genius suggestion from the clown at the dealership to "continue to ride it until your 600 mile check up". I received an email back from my dealer last week after I responded to his email about how I liked my new bike. One of the things I mentioned was that the handlebar clamp bolts, the two lower ones, were essentially finger tight". FINGER TIGHT. I discovered this when I was putting the risers on and thought to myself, I just rode 46 miles form the dealer like this. His response. "Sorry you are having an issue with that. Make sure to mention it to the service manager when you stop in for your 600 mile service." Lol. Can't make this sh*t up. Naturally, I torques all the bolts to spec after the risers were installed. Smh....
 

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And let's not forget the genius suggestion from the clown at the dealership to "continue to ride it until your 600 mile check up".
Yea, that inspires a lot of confidence. Clown is too nice of a description. :rolleyes:

I'm not sure how much bearing that specific incident will have if this ever proceeds to a legal remedy. At this point, BMW/NA is monitoring and controlling every diagnostic action the dealer takes (ask me how I know), and ultimately, that's what will be important.

Hind sight is always 20/20, but it's always a good idea to spend as much energy researching the dealer as you put into researching the bike. I live in the Los Angeles area, and when I decided to purchase my first BMW bike, I narrowed the potential Dealer choices down to two. I was looking for a good Service Department track record, and at least one BMW Master Mechanic (with history) on staff. I went with the Dealer that had two. :) As an added benefit, when I went through my oil consumption fiasco, the current GM was also a BMW Master Mechanic. On his time off, he raced bikes and built his own machines, so he was qualified to go toe-to-toe with whatever yahoo was on the BMW/NA side. In the end, that was more valuable than any slick Lawyer I could have hired.
 

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Hind sight is always 20/20, but it's always a good idea to spend as much energy researching the dealer as you put into researching the bike...
Different strokes: I've never researched a dealer....when I decide to purchase a vehicle I always just find dealers that have what I'm looking for in stock, on the lot or floor, test drive it, and work a deal. I've often bought a vehicle hundreds of miles away from home and never visited the dealer again.

In almost 60 years of purchasing vehicles I've never ordered one from a dealer/manufacturer or bought one without test driving it first. 20/20 hind sight in this case says the main problem is with the individual bike.

Tom
 

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Different strokes: I've never researched a dealer....when I decide to purchase a vehicle I always just find dealers that have what I'm looking for in stock, on the lot or floor, test drive it, and work a deal. I've often bought a vehicle hundreds of miles away from home and never visited the dealer again.

In almost 60 years of purchasing vehicles I've never ordered one from a dealer/manufacturer or bought one without test driving it first. 20/20 hind sight in this case says the main problem is with the individual bike.

Tom
I'm glad you've never had a problem where dealer incompetence could have possibly trashed your purchase investment. In reality, it doesn't happen that often, so I'm not surprised that you've meandered through life without issue. For big ticket items, I personally choose the path of caution and due diligence. But as you say, different strokes.

Regardless, let's hope our OP friend comes out made whole without too much mess. I'm rooting for him.
 

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I'm glad you've never had a problem where dealer incompetence could have possibly trashed your purchase investment.
You've missed the point, it's not whether or not I've ever had a problem, or my not rooting for a positive outcome. Dealer incompetence does not appear to have trashed anything.

The main problem appears to be the individual bike's engine out of the crate. In this case all the dealer research in the world wouldn't have provided an ounce of prevention. The bike appears to have failed it's first test ride, it's up to BMW to make it right.

Tom
 

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You've missed the point, it's not whether or not I've ever had a problem, or my not rooting for a positive outcome. Dealer incompetence does not appear to have trashed anything.

The main problem appears to be the individual bike's engine out of the crate. In this case all the dealer research in the world wouldn't have provided an ounce of prevention. The bike appears to have failed it's first test ride, it's up to BMW to make it right.

Tom
A few things about Dealer Competence (or whatever you'd like to call it):

1) A good Dealer does a full test ride of the bikes I purchase as part of that thing called "Dealer Prep". That means riding side streets, freeway, lower speed, higher speed, etc. If a repeatable and unmistakable bad "knock" existed, none of my bikes would have been released to me. After my new engine was installed, they ran my GTL through all the paces. They weren't going to hand me the keys until they were comfortable (as they could be) that everything was OK.

2) A good Dealer takes ownership and goes to bat for you for to address warranty situations. You should never have to go it alone when dealing with BMW/NA. I certainly didn't.

In a worst case scenario, buying from a bad dealer can mean never getting a bike correctly fixed, or even fixed at all. That can mean trashed resale value. There are many situations on the forum where members ended up just accepting excessive oil consumption or other intolerable problems because their incompetent/lazy dealer blew them off. Buying from a competent dealer means you have a much better chance that you won't be left holding the bag. With a little due diligence, it's not that hard to figure out the good Dealers from the not so good.

Again, if you look at things different, cool. As always YMMV.
 

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1) A good Dealer does a full test ride of the bikes I purchase as part of that thing called "Dealer Prep".
BMW UK’s protocol for pre-delivery inspection on a new bike includes a test ride and I don’t see why BMW NA’s protocol should be any different.

In the instant case the OP has said that his bike had the knock from the get go. That suggests that either the dealer didn’t test ride it prior to handover, or did test ride it and failed to detect there was a fault. Either scenario indicates incompetence.

Then, when told about the knock by the OP they compounded the issue with their ludicrous advice to “just keep riding it and we’ll look at it when we do the 600-mile service”.

Frankly, at this stage I would have no confidence in that dealership, but - in the UK at least - the initial statutory remedy lays with the selling dealer, and the manufacturer warranty provides additional benefits. I would therefore have to continue dealing with a dealer I wish I’d never purchased from. Things may be different in the USA, of course.
 
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BMW UK’s protocol for pre-delivery inspection on a new bike includes a test ride and I don’t see why BMW NA’s protocol should be any different.

In the instant case the OP has said that his bike had the knock from the get go. That suggests that either the dealer didn’t test ride it prior to handover, or did test ride it and failed to detect there was a fault. Either scenario indicates incompetence.

Then, when told about the knock by the OP they compounded the issue with their ludicrous advice to “just keep riding it and we’ll look at it when we do the 600-mile service”.

Frankly, at this stage I would have no confidence in that dealership, but - in the UK at least - the initial statutory remedy lays with the selling dealer, and the manufacturer warranty provides additional benefits. I would therefore have to continue dealing with a dealer I wish I’d never purchased from. Things may be different in the USA, of course.
Great overall analysis. Of course, BMW NA should have caught the issue before the bike left the factory. Then to add insult to injury, the dealer failed to catch it. The incompetence shown on both sides is staggering.

In the USA, I believe the OP can take the bike to any dealership. At this point with BMW NA already involved, I'm not sure how that would work, or if it would help. BMW NA is now in the drivers seat and will direct the dealer on what diagnostics to do and when. Each iteration will slowly peal the onion. It could all take a few more weeks....
 

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Without question or hesitation, BMW should offer the OP a brand new bike, with double factory warranty.

With internet and social media, bad news travels fast. I’ve seen far too many issues here with newer model K1600 engines to take the gamble again. I won’t be buying another K1600.

BMW, do the right thing and satisfy the customer. You’ve already lost me as a customer for a new bike, and you’ll lose others too unless you make situations like this right, and do so promptly.

How long until we see another “oil burning thread”? I say less than 2 weeks…
 

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Discussion Starter · #136 ·
NEWS from this morning email from the BMW Area Rep...
SO UNACEPTABLE...UNSURE WHAT TO DO, as I will not want this bike back, 3 weeks now and NEVER RECEIVED a feedback from the Dealership Manager (stay away from Gold Coast Motorsports in New Hyde Park, NY).
SAD STORY and still no bike, and PAYMENTS going on.
See attached...email from the BMW REP to BMW NA service support manager.

Any inputs on the way forward? need a serious and sound advice, anyone knows a good lawyer who could get on this case in New York City (vicinity) is it worth it going that path?
PLEASE HELP
Thanks
Cheers
LCL :(
 

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Well, I'm not going to say it, but " I told", oh never mind. Find a COMPETENT attorney to work with. Get referrals from other attorneys. DON'T use anyone who advertises all over the place. Maybe call the state bar and ask them for attorneys who work in this area. Start memorializing ALL communication with the dealer, BMW, etc. Time for battle son. There will be pain. You will continue to make your monthly payment. You will not get a bike for some time, but it is worth it to hold these idiots feet to the fire, and, in the long run, BMW lost a customer, and maybe a few here on this forum. Some here will say "Well, discuss it with the GM, blah, blah, blah. From your screenshot above, they have ALREADY made up their minds on how they are going to handle you. Your choice man. I'd be preparing to kick them in the teeth.
 

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Brazeagle sorry to hear that, and it does look like you'll be forced to go the legal route.

One thing that might be a legal hurdle is their claim that the bike has been repaired, and for this I would insist on a root cause analysis.

What caused the initial issue - I don't believe they've ever stated that - could it be something as simple as them pulling it out the crate backwards in gear and causing it to jump timing?

Same info needed for their second repair.
 

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Discussion Starter · #139 ·
Just got a phone call by a friend (ATTORNEY) and the advice is:
1- The BMW Rep says the bike is good to go...
2- The the bike is good to go, and an attorney will not be able to do anything.
3- There is no lemon law to be applied on this case.
4- Dealership says it is good and attorney will not be able to do anything against the dealership, or in special against BMW - WE WILL LOOSE regardless.
5- If we pursue a legal case, it will drag a long time (months if not years) and I will be making payments and without a bike
6- Attorney and his attorney colleagues worked on similar cases and they all LOST against BMW in the past.

JUST NOW...while writing
Spoken to a very close friend of mine who owns a Dealership and he also told me to PICK UP the bike, drive as I stolen it, and enjoy it, and eventually trade it in, sell or just keep it if no more issues.

Was also advised that, It is a lost case and nothing can be done, my friend told me he goes through this monthly with 80K vehicles, and customer NEVER WINS because the manufacture (corporate) are stronger and knows the way around.

SAD, SAD, SAD.
Thanks everyone for all inputs,
I am closing this tread,
Cheers
LCL
 

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Just got a phone call by a friend (ATTORNEY) and the advice is:
1- The BMW Rep says the bike is good to go...
2- The the bike is good to go, and an attorney will not be able to do anything.
3- There is no lemon law to be applied on this case.
4- Dealership says it is good and attorney will not be able to do anything against the dealership, or in special against BMW - WE WILL LOOSE regardless.
5- If we pursue a legal case, it will drag a long time (months if not years) and I will be making payments and without a bike
6- Attorney and his attorney colleagues worked on similar cases and they all LOST against BMW in the past.

JUST NOW...while writing
Spoken to a very close friend of mine who owns a Dealership and he also told me to PICK UP the bike, drive as I stolen it, and enjoy it, and eventually trade it in, sell or just keep it if no more issues.

Was also advised that, It is a lost case and nothing can be done, my friend told me he goes through this monthly with 80K vehicles, and customer NEVER WINS because the manufacture (corporate) are stronger and knows the way around.

SAD, SAD, SAD.
Thanks everyone for all inputs,
I am closing this tread,
Cheers
LCL
What state are you in? You need to find an attorney you paid for.

There are many steps available to you.
1. Mediation
2. Arbitration
3. Court action
Notice that NOT one of those steps above is "rolling over" as your "friend" suggests".

Don't want to hire competent legal counsel. Take your bike, with a giant sign stating your plight with this dealership/BMW, and park your a*s just off of their property, with a cooler full of water/snacks, and sit and wave at people encouraging potential customers to stop and talk with you. Many ways to skin a cat my friend and most of them will cause you great inconvenience.
 
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