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I, also know a guy with a newer K GT who gave up due to many issues. He went to 18 Goldwing DTC. awhile back, I had mentioned to him not to hold and get ext warranty. The bottom line is those bikes are very sophisticated, at times I think, too much. Like the BMW cars, you can not drive a used one without a coverage. They also have problems and not few. Just like Land Rovers. Both amazing cars to own....BTW. Happy trouble free and safe ride.................!!!!!!!!!
 

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You wanna know what I think? Probably not but your going to hear it anyways.馃槣

We all put that benchmark badge on too high of a pedestal. These bikes we ride are no more expensive than the equivalent touring bikes from Honda or Harley but for some reason we as buyers think that these BMW bikes we buy should be without trouble based purely on the fact they are a BMW and they cost so much money. I got a news flash for you.. Honda and Harley owners think the exact same way and theres just as many brand hater threads on those forums as there is here. Actually.. Harley forums are the worst by far. Those guys bitch and moan about how the MoCo is just in it for the money and they will never buy another one.. 3 months later the same asshat is posting pictures of his brand new motorcycle he got suckered into trading for when he was down at the dealership looking at t-shirts and chrome accessories for his old one. Coincidently enough.. the same old bike he proudly announced to everyone on the forum that he just paid off 6 months prior.

Back on topic.
Should they be without fault.. sure but its beyond me to believe they can make xxxxx bikes a year and have them all perform perfectly. Honda's new Wingdinger isnt without faults nor are the new Harleys, they all have quirks. Looking back can you name any BMW motorcycle built in the last 20 years that was absolutely flawless? That ran without breakdowns, no final drive issues, no rear ESA shock issues, no fuel strip issues, no fork seal issues, no loose rusty spokes.. They built many great motorcycles but very fecking few of them without some sort of issues. While these issues might be less with other brands, those bring their own challenges to the table as well.

That said, todays buyers read online forums like this to get a feel for the bike they would like to own. They read very little good, all the bad and with eyes wide shut... go buy one anyways. Or. Like the op here who has had several BMW's and had issues with all of them.. well why did he buy the last one then? I dont blame anyone for switching brands, I did it my self 6 years ago and have been perfectly happy ever since. Thankfully theres more here that are happy than disappointed, and that holds true across every brand. If your not happy then go buy something that blows your skirt up
 

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Harleys are terrible and Harley riders are the worst cool-aide drinkers. I recall a Harley rider line of the past...."Harleys are designed to leak oil so they leave their mark". The Harleys of today are much better than those of the 80's but that quote show the mentality of some Harley riders. They are completely clueless when it comes to motorcycle performance AND I rode them for 20 years. Harley is all about their image and the buyers fall right in line getting Harley tattoos to go along with their Harley shirts and Harley everything else. The Goldwing is surely not without fault. Many old Goldwing buyers will not even consider the new Goldwing because it does not have enough luggage space plus the "cockpit" is too small. The occasional mechanical problem can't be avoided but design nflaws are avoidable. R&D exists so that these issues do happen. Unfortunately, manufacturers have focused less on R7D and more on marketing. It's all about getting the bikes on the street. If you build a great bike the buyers will let everyone know. As I said I was a Harley rider for 20 years and really missed performance riding. I sold my 1000 lbs Road Glide Ultra and now own a GTL. It is a completely different motorcycle ....more like my old FJ than my HD. It is responsive, nimble, quick....it's a performance bike BUT it is terrible on the interstate especially when semi's are around. It gets knocked around a good deal. BMW had to see this during wind tunnel testing but choose not to do anything about it. If they didn't they surely have heard from their owners complaining about it and still haven't done anything about it. My GTL is a very good bike but it can an d should be better. It should especially be better at what it is designed to do which is touring since it is a sport TOURING bike. Safe travels
The amount of ignorance in this post is astounding. I built and rode Harley's for decades. I rode them between 20-30k miles a year. Never had one fail on me and I loved everyone of them for different reasons. Just recently sold my Harley that I custom built so it's the first time I've not had an HD in the garage in a very long time. I've also owned Triumphs, Hondas and BMWs. All have their pluses and minuses. I have 51,000 miles on my K1600 and it has never been in the shop. And sorry to disappoint, but I don't have any tattoos either.

Not saying there aren't some running around that may fit your description but it's not the majority. Same can be said for BMW riders and the stereotypes that some attribute to them.
 

Mr.Fix It
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@coyotek , you took the words right out of my mouth. Old saying, never let the truth get in the way of a good joke. @pbrown2569 ; Harleys back in the day were DESIGNED to drip oil. They had an automatic chain oiler that would drip oil on the chain; ergo, spot the driveway. I know, I drove and wrenched on one of those Shovelheads, a '73 Superglide, for 19 years.
 

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...Same can be said for BMW riders and the stereotypes that some attribute to them.
Stereotypes may be oversimplified generalizations; but in the case of motorcycle riders I have found them to be accurate.

Harley riders tend to park at bars, BMW riders tend to park at expensive steakhouses or out of the way cafe's, and Honda riders tend to park at all day breakfast or all you can eat buffets. :ROFLMAO:

Tom
 

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The amount of ignorance in this post is astounding. I built and rode Harley's for decades. I rode them between 20-30k miles a year. Never had one fail on me and I loved everyone of them for different reasons. Just recently sold my Harley that I custom built so it's the first time I've not had an HD in the garage in a very long time. I've also owned Triumphs, Hondas and BMWs. All have their pluses and minuses. I have 51,000 miles on my K1600 and it has never been in the shop. And sorry to disappoint, but I don't have any tattoos either.

Not saying there aren't some running around that may fit your description but it's not the majority. Same can be said for BMW riders and the stereotypes that some attribute to them.
 

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Any company that is not continuously looking at their supply chain to optimize costs is not being effectively managed and will probably go out of business in today's competitive environment.

The challenge is obviously to cut costs without a reduction in quality. Even the quality question is a difficult issue. Mean Time Before Failure is a common measure of the quality of an engineering component. But why bother to design and manufacture a component to a very high MTBF if the replacement cost of a cheaper component is lower. Companies make these decisions all the time. Where failure is not an option, as in the space program, components and systems are tested thousands of times before being used. Although they are not for sale, a MotoGP motorcycle is estimated to cost over $1 million but runs on tires designed to last optimally for only 100 miles.

In the consumer world, there is also planned obsolescence. Originally crafted by a consortium of light bulb manufacturers in Europe after WW1 who agreed not to make any light bulbs that lasted more than 1,000 hours. Now planned obsolescence is part of the design process in most companies.

For BMW, I am certain that they could engineer and manufacture a K1600 that would last forever, but they also know from marketing research (and I am sure from monitoring this forum) that most riders want to "trade up" before the three year warranty expires.
You wanna know what I think? Probably not but your going to hear it anyways.馃槣

We all put that benchmark badge on too high of a pedestal. These bikes we ride are no more expensive than the equivalent touring bikes from Honda or Harley but for some reason we as buyers think that these BMW bikes we buy should be without trouble based purely on the fact they are a BMW and they cost so much money. I got a news flash for you.. Honda and Harley owners think the exact same way and theres just as many brand hater threads on those forums as there is here. Actually.. Harley forums are the worst by far. Those guys bitch and moan about how the MoCo is just in it for the money and they will never buy another one.. 3 months later the same asshat is posting pictures of his brand new motorcycle he got suckered into trading for when he was down at the dealership looking at t-shirts and chrome accessories for his old one. Coincidently enough.. the same old bike he proudly announced to everyone on the forum that he just paid off 6 months prior.

Back on topic.
Should they be without fault.. sure but its beyond me to believe they can make xxxxx bikes a year and have them all perform perfectly. Honda's new Wingdinger isnt without faults nor are the new Harleys, they all have quirks. Looking back can you name any BMW motorcycle built in the last 20 years that was absolutely flawless? That ran without breakdowns, no final drive issues, no rear ESA shock issues, no fuel strip issues, no fork seal issues, no loose rusty spokes.. They built many great motorcycles but very fecking few of them without some sort of issues. While these issues might be less with other brands, those bring their own challenges to the table as well.

That said, todays buyers read online forums like this to get a feel for the bike they would like to own. Terhey read very little good, all the bad and with eyes wide shut... go buy one anyways. Or. Like the op here who has had several BMW's and had issues with all of them.. well why did he buy the last one then? I dont blame anyone for switching brands, I did it my self 6 years ago and have been perfectly happy ever since. Thankfully theres more here that are happy than disappointed, and that holds true across every brand. If your not happy then go buy something that blows your skirt up
Nah, if there were a thumb down, I'd use it. My 2015 GT is flawless. It better be. I've had numerous Hondas and an HD, and none of them had anything break, had no pull of the shaft-drive, ok the HD didn't have one and its rear brake loved to slide out when hit too hard, but no surprises at all, ever. To BMW's credit, they replaced entire transmissions on a faulty gear in the last recall, I doubt any other manufacturer would have done that, nor would have done a universal recall under the circumstances.
 

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If that was sarcasm.. it was brilliant!
Now thats funny!!!!!.......I HOPE???.
Sorry. I couldn't help myself.

My K1600 sucks. My TPMS always throws me into panic mode when I'm farthest away from home and my waterpump is leaking. I cant get the dealer to fix it. The **** thing eats tires at an alarming rate. The seat is a flipping torture device. It cost way too much. The final drive will probably fail.... blah blah blah.

But I still love my GTL. I guess that makes me a fan boy. I loved my Kawasaki Concours C14 too. It had absolutely Zero problems except for the same awful seat. But I absolutely love my Beemer. I am not going to commiserate with guys who come on here and talk about how much they hate their K1600. There are too many other good bikes out there. Go try something different. Instead of bitching about what a mistake I made, I'll continue to try to line out the problems. This a K1600 forum after all.
 

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The SATNAV issue is not really a BMW problem but a Garmin problem so I'm not sure you can hold BMW directly accountable. The gearbox issue is a black eye on the brand but every motorcycle manufacturer has recalls from time to time for major and minor issues so while you can switch brands you still have the potential for problems. I'd be frustrated with the quick shifter issue but it's not a show stopper and you can still ride the bike by shifting gears manually. I wouldn't allow my bike to sit idle at the dealership during riding season for a quick shifter issue. I've owned 8 BMW's all purchased brand new and only had an issue with one, my 2006 K12S, transmission failed with less than 9K on the clock and BMW never figured out how to solve the poor fueling issues. The other 7 BMW's I've owned have all been flawless with zero issues or problems and the transmission failure on the 2006 K12S was replaced under warranty.

If you've owned several BMW's and this is the first bike you had issues with I wouldn't abandon the brand because of a bad experience with one bike. As I stated earlier I've owned 8 new BMW's and had a bad experience with one so I'm not prepared to walk away from BMW because no matter the manufacturer you're going to have a few bikes that end up being lemons.
 

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15 years spread over 5 BMW bikes. R1200 C Montauk, R1200RT, 2x 1200 GSAs, and the current 17+ K1600 GT.

No more.

In 26000 kms (current mileage on my bike) I've experienced 3 satnav replacements, 1 gearbox replacement, and currently a hard to diagnose / fix gearshift pro failure.

Every few months, my bike spends time in the shop. This morning I went in with my bike in, the dealer thought replacing the sensor will fix the gearshift pro - it didn't, now they have to tear it down and fix it and they have no idea when I will have my bike back. Again. Less than a few months after being left without a bike due to the ridiculous gearbox recall which turned into a full gearbox replacement, that left me stranded for months.

I received a high amount of bashing on this forum, after posting about my gearbox problems (enough to ask forum moderators to delete my own multipage thread). The opinion that BMW was becoming a Sunday afternoon bike, meant for low-mileage, high margins, garage queen / trophy status, more than a daily / real life vehicle was the one that proved the most troublesome, for most forum members, here.

Well, reality is once again beyond internet wisdom. Today my BMW fanboy days are officially over. I've stood behind the brand and the bikes for so long, but the BMW transition from a "true, long distance bike" to a marketing hyped pile of fluff is now complete. Marketing has killed the product and the brand. A stranded BMW biker is no longer a rare occurence and it doesn't get a network of corporate pressured dealers to lose any sleep on how to get the rider back on the road asap. I've seen this both in the UK and Romania, across multiple dealers. Corporate HQ is non-existent in the relationship with customers, and they are incredibly disconnected from any form of deep / real responsibility for their product and service.

German top engineering and reliability is, as things currently stand, sorry ... a joke. And with BMW customers obsessing only over which display is better on their 2-3 years, 15-20k miles scheduled upgrade, there is no real pressure to change anything fundamental from the way BMW is doing business. They keep churning out unending iterations of gadget filled machines that are nothing more than disposable, expensive, toys.

Well, sorry, I don't want to play this game anymore. Too rich for my blood, too much mindless consumerism fuelling corporate irresponsibility. My time and money are no longer going to fuel this mess. Feel free to make your own choices - but for me it ends, today.
Sadly I generally agree with your premise. At 20 months since new my bike spent 7 months in the workshop (8 months if a Covid delay is included). My local dealer in Graz has been great, BMW HQ were the cause of the delays and obfuscation. IMHO they couldn't care less.

My Engine, Gearbox (high oil consumption) was replaced along with the entire frame etc to solve a severe Left Pull. Now after 1,000kms on the new gearbox its rattling beyond belief with enough drive train slack to give me whiplash. And so here we go again, it goes back to the workshop having already had a week troubleshooting to be torn down and, and, and. How many weeks/months this will take is anyone's guess.

My problem is when the bike works its an utter pleasure....when it works....but this can't go on. The question I've been asking myself is what next?
 

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Sadly I generally agree with your premise. At 20 months since new my bike spent 7 months in the workshop (8 months if a Covid delay is included). My local dealer in Graz has been great, BMW HQ were the cause of the delays and obfuscation. IMHO they couldn't care less.

My Engine, Gearbox (high oil consumption) was replaced along with the entire frame etc to solve a severe Left Pull. Now after 1,000kms on the new gearbox its rattling beyond belief with enough drive train slack to give me whiplash. And so here we go again, it goes back to the workshop having already had a week troubleshooting to be torn down and, and, and. How many weeks/months this will take is anyone's guess.

My problem is when the bike works its an utter pleasure....when it works....but this can't go on. The question I've been asking myself is what next?
Given everything, why aren't they just replacing the gearbox instead of continuing this endless circle of misery?
 

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Sadly ... My local dealer in Graz has been great, BMW HQ were the cause of the delays and obfuscation. IMHO they couldn't care less.
If your local dealer was great they would do whatever they thought was necessary to keep you happy. IMHO that's where the buck stops.

Tom
 

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If your local dealer was great they would do whatever they thought was necessary to keep you happy. IMHO that's where the buck stops.

Tom
In a perfect world, yes. The problem is that BMW-HQ decides what will be paid for under warranty. Bikes sit for months waiting for new parts because HQ won't pay for piecing things back together while waiting. Dealers can't afford to eat significant unpaid hours.
 

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In a perfect world, yes... Dealers can't afford to eat significant unpaid hours.
Even in an imperfect world they aren't great if they can't afford to do what it takes to service their customers. There are dealers out there that are able to deal with the mothership and keep customers fairly happy. Sorry about Afhorsely's problems and hope they get fixed.

Tom
 

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see my post on bike not fit for purpose i had untold problems with the last bike
and i have to agree its bmw not the dealers
but that said brought 6 k1600 so it's not they have not had their fair shear of my money over the years plus all the clothing boots helmets you name it
 
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