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I keep DOMINATOR® Octane Boost AOB - AMSOIL in my tank bag just in case I run into the E-80 pumps found out west.
Here in the west we have an E85 pump at some stations and it's only 15% gasoline. Few vehicles are setup to run that fuel. They use E80 down in Brazil but their cars are setup to run it. Don't put E85 in your bike.
 

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Steve's Brother
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2. anytime I travel to high altitudes I carry a bottle.
Without getting into all the details of why I subscribe to this but in higher altitudes you don't need as much octane in your gas as you do at lower altitudes. Here in Arizona the low octane button on the pump is 87 where as in the Rocky Mt. states you see 85 a lot on the pumps.
 

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Techmeister
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Without getting into all the details of why I subscribe to this but in higher altitudes you don't need as much octane in your gas as you do at lower altitudes. Here in Arizona the low octane button on the pump is 87 where as in the Rocky Mt. states you see 85 a lot on the pumps.
Ok. I accept what you are saying but there is one thing... At ground level, there is a higher density of O2 than at altitude. If I begin with an octane that is lower, am I not lowering it more? Honest question; I do not know. My internal logic tells me that the higher I go - the further away from the gravity of the Planet - the less O2 per square meter there will be. Space has very, very little.

I am asking if the octane difference is more political or supply chain than physics?
BTW: I am wrong often (but only once) and have no problem with correction.
 

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There are a lot of spots way out in west Texas where I can't get 89 octane and run 87 (or even 85) with no problem. I've found that BMWs seem to be less picky than my Italian bikes when it comes to fuel.

james
 

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This thread is a interesting read about octane and fuel......
 

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I’ve been reading this thread with great interest. I have the stage-2 Bren tune installed on my 2018 GTL. I recall in another thread about a year ago that the big man at Bren said that there was no need to worry if you can’t find 93 octane fuel. The bike will run fine with stage-2 on 89 octane fuel, only without some of the benefits of Bren’s stage-2 tune. In fact, I’ve been running Bren stage-2 for the past year on 89 octane fuel and in dynamic mode. I’ve experienced no problems but assume that I’m missing out on some of the performance improvements. I’m curious if anyone else has had experience with running Bren’s stage-2 on lower grade fuel. Any dangers in running that way?
 

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Boom
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Ok. I accept what you are saying but there is one thing... At ground level, there is a higher density of O2 than at altitude. If I begin with an octane that is lower, am I not lowering it more? Honest question; I do not know. My internal logic tells me that the higher I go - the further away from the gravity of the Planet - the less O2 per square meter there will be. Space has very, very little.

I am asking if the octane difference is more political or supply chain than physics?
BTW: I am wrong often (but only once) and have no problem with correction.
Political. Back in the days of carburetor engines, lower octane could balance out the lower O2 at higher altitudes. With fuel injected engines that adjust the mix, they really should not be selling 85 octane up here in the mountains these days, but...it is much cheaper to refine the lower octane gasoline and the oil companies can make higher profits. There have been several moves to get rid of the lower octane fuels sold in the Rocky Mountain states, but there is too much political pull from the oil companies.
 

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Boom
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I’ve been reading this thread with great interest. I have the stage-2 Bren tune installed on my 2018 GTL. I recall in another thread about a year ago that the big man at Bren said that there was no need to worry if you can’t find 93 octane fuel. The bike will run fine with stage-2 on 89 octane fuel, only without some of the benefits of Bren’s stage-2 tune. In fact, I’ve been running Bren stage-2 for the past year on 89 octane fuel and in dynamic mode. I’ve experienced no problems but assume that I’m missing out on some of the performance improvements. I’m curious if anyone else has had experience with running Bren’s stage-2 on lower grade fuel. Any dangers in running that way?
I run the Stage 2 most often with 91 octane and that is what is commonly available as premium here in Colorado. When I have the opportunity, I do get 93 and will also opt for pure gasoline without the ethanol garbage in it...but there are not a lot of places out here with that combination.
 

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Steve's Brother
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Ok. I accept what you are saying but there is one thing... At ground level, there is a higher density of O2 than at altitude. If I begin with an octane that is lower, am I not lowering it more? Honest question; I do not know. My internal logic tells me that the higher I go - the further away from the gravity of the Planet - the less O2 per square meter there will be. Space has very, very little.

I am asking if the octane difference is more political or supply chain than physics?
BTW: I am wrong often (but only once) and have no problem with correction.
Here is my reasoning. My brother Steve told me this story. Years ago a friend of his, Rich King a Harley Davidson sponsored racer, was in a race outside of Denver, CO and won it handily. The other riders claimed he was cheating and that he had made illegal changes to his engine. Actually all he did was run a lower octane gas than they did because of the altitude. Good story I thought so I keep that in mind and seeing 85 octane available in Colorado I'll use it, if need be. If the pump has 85 and then jumps to 91 I'll usually put the 91 in (hey the story is good but.....). Otherwise I only put in 89, like my bike's manual recommends.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
So for a 5 gallon fill you would put about a third of the bottle of Amsoil Dominator Octane Booster in then? Is this something you just eyeball?
 

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Discussion Starter #33
No doubt, but the LM product is conveniently available in little motorcycle cans, so you just dump it all in with however much you put in the tank (no doubt it would be wasted on a full 7 gallons), chuck in the trash and go. 😁No calculating or measuring. I know with different amounts of gas mixed in, you’ll get different results, and I’ve only been able to detect better results at idle and low rpm with crappy gas and using this stuff, but I also take it easy when using low octane junk gas.

I’d better knock on wood, because with this bike, I‘m like @flyjets, and I’ve never had to put anything but 93 in the K16 so far. He’s been happy, happy, happy.
Do you have a link to the exact one you use? Thanks in advance
 

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Sir Robin’s Lead Minstrel
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Do you have a link to the exact one you use? Thanks in advance
Sorry it took me this long to get back to you; here it is: Motorbike 4T Bike-Additive - Additives

144430

Now, that said, I also learned some things in my quest to find a good picture, ultimately leading me to the Liqui-Moly site itself. This stuff weighs next to nothing, and because it's the perfect size per their recommendations for a 5.2 gal. fill-up (it's near the size of the K1200S/K1300S tank), that community loves it. It makes THOSE bikes run better with low octane fuel, and better at idle, especially with E10. I'm confident it won't hurt your K16, but I can't guarantee it'll have the same effect. That said, if you decide it does nothing for you, you're only out a few bucks.

What is interesting is I then went to look at my newer cans, and they've now REMOVED the previous claims of a specific amount of octane boost, so while it used to say on the label it was a bit of a do-it-all, octane-booster, fuel system cleaner, fuel conditioner, etc., they've toned down the language. It's still the same stuff, though. They make generic octane booster (not car or moto-specific), but it's a bigger can. They also make a couple versions of a product called "Shooter" motorcycle gas additive, and a 4T version of it, and the 4T version just looks like a smaller version of the same product depicted above, but made for 2 gallon sportbike tanks.

I believe in it enough to keep a can in a bag of my K16, but I'm not throwing in some 87 just to test it out. 😁
 

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Sir Robin’s Lead Minstrel
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I can't tell if it makes a difference, but I started using it in gas I keep in the garage after buying a bottle for winterizing (I think Lemmy at Revzilla said he preferred it to Sta-bil for winterizing, especially if you left E10 in it over the winter), and throwing some in a near-full tank of E10 when I pull back into the garage. Dunno if I can tell a difference at all, but then again, I've had no problems, so....
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Sorry it took me this long to get back to you; here it is: Motorbike 4T Bike-Additive - Additives

View attachment 144430
Now, that said, I also learned some things in my quest to find a good picture, ultimately leading me to the Liqui-Moly site itself. This stuff weighs next to nothing, and because it's the perfect size per their recommendations for a 5.2 gal. fill-up (it's near the size of the K1200S/K1300S tank), that community loves it. It makes THOSE bikes run better with low octane fuel, and better at idle, especially with E10. I'm confident it won't hurt your K16, but I can't guarantee it'll have the same effect. That said, if you decide it does nothing for you, you're only out a few bucks.

What is interesting is I then went to look at my newer cans, and they've now REMOVED the previous claims of a specific amount of octane boost, so while it used to say on the label it was a bit of a do-it-all, octane-booster, fuel system cleaner, fuel conditioner, etc., they've toned down the language. It's still the same stuff, though. They make generic octane booster (not car or moto-specific), but it's a bigger can. They also make a couple versions of a product called "Shooter" motorcycle gas additive, and a 4T version of it, and the 4T version just looks like a smaller version of the same product depicted above, but made for 2 gallon sportbike tanks.

I believe in it enough to keep a can in a bag of my K16, but I'm not throwing in some 87 just to test it out. 😁
@dobervol Thank you for taking the time out to find the link and to give me some info on it. Truly appreciate it
 

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So for a 5 gallon fill you would put about a third of the bottle of Amsoil Dominator Octane Booster in then? Is this something you just eyeball?
IIRC, Amsoil product boosts octane rating by 2 (89 to 91 for example) by adding .4oz per gallon. Or 2.4 per 6 gallons. It would take .8oz to raise 89 to 93, or 4.8oz per 6 gallon tank. Storing in a small premeasured bottle on the bike for fills would be handy. Marked lines on an 8ox bottle would eliminate the guess work I would think.
*edit: corrected above. Bad typing or bad math...was wrong one way or the other!
.4=+2 .8=+4
 

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Sir Robin’s Lead Minstrel
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IIRC, Amsoil product boosts octane rating by 2 (89 to 91 for example) by adding .4oz per gallon. Or 2.4 per 6 gallons. It would take .8oz to raise 89 to 93, or 4.8oz per 6 gallon tank. Storing in a small premeasured bottle on the bike for fills would be handy. Marked lines on an 8ox bottle would eliminate the guess work I would think.
*edit: corrected above. Bad typing or bad math...was wrong one way or the other!
.4=+2 .8=+4
Thanks, James! If I don’t like my “fix” on the K16 the first time I get stuck with bad gas, I’ll give that a shot, although I’ve run it on fumes twice to get to good 93 octane, and so might need a full 7 gal mark (10 miles past flashing empty once :eek: ). But we all have to use crappy gas sooner or later.

And I’m not a great innovator, but I’m good at borrowing the good ideas of other folks who are willing to share.
 
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I run the Stage 2 most often with 91 octane and that is what is commonly available as premium here in Colorado. When I have the opportunity, I do get 93 and will also opt for pure gasoline without the ethanol garbage in it...but there are not a lot of places out here with that combination.
Bren told me that I should not do the stage 2 in CA as the motor will compensate for the lousy 91 CA gas anyway and I would not get any additional power from the stage 1 (have the handheld so came with both but he labeled stage 1 "California") and could possibly hurt the motor if I got a especially bad tank full and the motor could not compensate enough. Kills me I cant use the stage 2 every time I have to reinstall the stage 1..
 
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