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Discussion Starter #1
My 2015 GTL (only 16000 Km) has recently been hard to start when cold. It will fire for about 1 sec and stall. Start again and runs for 1 sec and stalls. Takes about 4-5 start attempts to finally run.
Had it in for annual service last week and they said I needed a new battery ($200 CAD!!) and that they did a flash upgrade on my onboard controllers.
Tried to start after I got home when it had cooled overnight - same thing.
I checked the fuel pressure with my GS-911 and it looks OK (about 4700 mbar (68 psi) before start and about 4500 mbar (65 psi) running
It seems to me that there is insufficient cold start fuel enrichment????

Anyone else experienced this problem???
I don't want to take it back to the dealer (and just have them replace more parts) unless I have a clue as to what might be wrong

Thx
Jim

PS I've attached all the software/firmware changes that were made when they did this upgrade from the mother ship - for info. Quite a few changes!!!
 

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The only issue my 2015 had with starting was directly attributable to the lack of CCA from the battery to the starter. It's rare for a fuel injected engine to do what you are describing, have you considered bad gas or stagnant gas a potential cause? I mention this because people love to leave their bikes all cocooned up in the garage thinking this is what is best for them when it's definitely not.

Winter time, clear-ish roads - run the fokker like you stole it for at least 20 miles or more once a month or so. That will discourage degradation of seals, condensate build up etc. I'm not a proponent of fuel additives, the simple answer to engine stagnation is just ride the **** thing.

Have you scanned for error codes? Even when the bike was mostly doing what it should, the ECU would log small glitches. Running live diagnostics while you use the bike is another option too, after I fixed mine and re-assembled it I left it plugged in under the seat and took it out for a check ride while it fed live data to my phone.

Aside from looking for codes what comes to mind is fouled injectors or a spark delivery issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Very unlikely to be bad gas. I use only top tier fuel (Shell V Power, 91 Octane at present) that has no ethanol. I use this same fuel from same supplier in some of my other vehicles and no problems.

No error codes when scanned with my GS-911. If there were some injector or ignition issues, I think they would show up on a scan??
On the road, I don't baby it and in the twisties, I definitely don't baby it!!!

Not really possible to run it on the road once per month in the winter here in Ontario, Canada!! However it is kept in a heated garage that has an industrial dehumidifier to ensure low humidity.

I havent tried to connect my GS-911 wi-fi to my iPhone., however it runs perfectly on the road and starts immediately when warm and starts immediately right after I get it running after this cold start issue occurs.
 

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My 2015 GTL (only 16000 Km) has recently been hard to start when cold. It will fire for about 1 sec and stall. Start again and runs for 1 sec and stalls. Takes about 4-5 start attempts to finally run.

Had it in for annual service last week and they said I needed a new battery ($200 CAD!!) and that they did a flash upgrade on my onboard controllers.

Tried to start after I got home when it had cooled overnight - same thing.

I checked the fuel pressure with my GS-911 and it looks OK (about 4700 mbar (68 psi) before start and about 4500 mbar (65 psi) running

It seems to me that there is insufficient cold start fuel enrichment????



Anyone else experienced this problem???

I don't want to take it back to the dealer (and just have them replace more parts) unless I have a clue as to what might be wrong



Thx

Jim



PS I've attached all the software/firmware changes that were made when they did this upgrade from the mother ship - for info. Quite a few changes!!!


how did you do to access the software firmware information ? With your GS-911WIFI ? Thank’s


Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk
 

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if the air cleaner/filter is anywhere easy to get to, you could shoot some starting fuid into it while trying one of these cold weather starts. If that helps, then you've answered your question about a cold weather/fuel enrichment problem.

I can't recall ignition problems ever arising because of cold weather. I don't think electrons jumping across an air gap care what the temperature is.



Jeff
 

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Have you reset the adaptation, throttle etc
 

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Well, if you are having this problem in Ontario at this time of year, kudos for riding! (it is 33' here this morning).

The hard running problem is not related to your battery problem as proposed by your dealer. If the engine is turning its not your battery, and the engine is self sustaining once it is running. However, you may need a new battery simply because it doesn't test well. But... if you really do need a battery, you can get the PC680 here. There are several things that can keep the engine from running, but the basics, fuel, air, spark, compression, timing, all of these things eventually sort themselves out for you so one of them is causing a problem in the beginning. Of those, the suspects are air and gas. The engine will measure ambient air temperature as a way of calculating air density to set its Fuel/Air ratio. When it gets too cold or you are at altitude the management system only has so many options in controlling the F/A ratio and it will be harder to start the engine. If you are going from a warm garage to outside before starting that can fool the engine. I have seen it happen in some cases where even starting the vehicle with the garage door open (heated garage, unheated gaia) and having the engine suck in hyper cold outside air caused problems. Your air cleaner @16k is probably not the problem but it doesn't hurt to check. I would not rule out gas just because you use one gas station or brand, it just makes it less likely to be gas, but not impossible. In the snowmobile i always use the same gas station for local rides but they have had a bad batch of gas before.
 

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Jim,
A group of us were recently riding around Alpine, AZ and most all of us noted cold start burps on the chilly mornings.
Everyone fired up after a couple of sputters, but as @bbolesaz (Brian) noted, it looked like BMW did not put a cold start algorithm into the ECU.
For us, it was not a major hassle, just required a couple of extra attempts. Everything ran fine in just a few moments after a short idle.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
how did you do to access the software firmware information ? With your GS-911WIFI ? Thank’s


Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk
Yes, with the GS-911
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Have you reset the adaptation, throttle etc
I havent done that. I assume that the dealer did that when they flashed the new software last week, but I don’t know for sure
I’ll do it tobe sure
 

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cold starts

Jim,
A group of us were recently riding around Alpine, AZ and most all of us noted cold start burps on the chilly mornings.
Everyone fired up after a couple of sputters, but as @bbolesaz (Brian) noted, it looked like BMW did not put a cold start algorithm into the ECU.
For us, it was not a major hassle, just required a couple of extra attempts. Everything ran fine in just a few moments after a short idle.

Interesting - just returned from 11 days in AZ/NM. 3rd night out was Flagstaff. 25deg F in the morning and my '16 GT did a similar start as gooddog describes. Several GSs and an RT were in attendance and some of those reported similar unusual starts.


Other mornings with temps in 30s didn't seem to produce the problems.
 

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I had similar starting issues with the initial tank of gas in my brand new GTL. Low 50’s and the engine did not want to catch. When I put my first purchased tank of gas into it, I made sure it was good gas and added some Techron at the fill up. Problem seems to be gone. Maybe the Techron helped, maybe it was just a full tank of fresh gas.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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I was one of the guys with Gooddog in Alpine. The first cold morning mine started OK but the second morning, which left frost on my seat, it did what you state. Turned over and sputtered for a second or two a few times and then finally started. I wouldn't start worrying about things being "wrong" as long as it does start after several of those sputter events. My bike has a 3 1/2 year old battery which might be the common link. Don't loose any sleep over it.
 

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My 2015 GTL (only 16000 Km) has recently been hard to start when cold. It will fire for about 1 sec and stall. Start again and runs for 1 sec and stalls. Takes about 4-5 start attempts to finally run.
Had it in for annual service last week and they said I needed a new battery ($200 CAD!!) and that they did a flash upgrade on my onboard controllers.
Tried to start after I got home when it had cooled overnight - same thing.
I checked the fuel pressure with my GS-911 and it looks OK (about 4700 mbar (68 psi) before start and about 4500 mbar (65 psi) running
It seems to me that there is insufficient cold start fuel enrichment????

Anyone else experienced this problem???
I don't want to take it back to the dealer (and just have them replace more parts) unless I have a clue as to what might be wrong

Thx
Jim

PS I've attached all the software/firmware changes that were made when they did this upgrade from the mother ship - for info. Quite a few changes!!!
I had identical symptoms to those you described here. I quickly came to realize the injectors were leaking down into the cylinders when the bike had sat even just over night. Next time you start the bike open the throttle right away. I found if I started the bike with a wide open throttle it instantly fired up. I solved this issue with a max does of Techron, and burned through an entire tank on highway ride, that was it, problem solved never happened again.
 

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My 2012 does the same on cold days on occasion. It seems to fire up easier when I leave my thumb on the starter button an extra split second. In my case, I am overdue for a tuneup and new plugs which certainly doesn't help things in my case (65,000 mi.).
 

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Hi, I was on the Alpine AZ trip and I took a video of my bike starting.


I left it at Ride Now Euro service. They have been discussing the issue with someone from the mothership, but have not come to a conclusion yet.

One thing that we have been looking at is this -
The manual says - "When starting a cold engine at low ambient temperatures: disengage the clutch and turn the twistgrip slightly to open the throttle"

The question is - what does "disengage the clutch" mean. I usually start in neutral and don't touch the clutch lever. I'm wondering if a cold start needs to have the clutch lever pulled in while starting.
Unfortunately, living in the Valley of the Sunstroke (Phoenix area), there's not much opportunity to test cold starting.
If someone on this thread has a chance to test cold starting with and without the clutch pulled, I would appreciate it.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Hi, I was on the Alpine AZ trip and I took a video of my bike starting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyeGX8Ye2VY

I left it at Ride Now Euro service. They have been discussing the issue with someone from the mothership, but have not come to a conclusion yet.

One thing that we have been looking at is this -
The manual says - "When starting a cold engine at low ambient temperatures: disengage the clutch and turn the twistgrip slightly to open the throttle"

The question is - what does "disengage the clutch" mean. I usually start in neutral and don't touch the clutch lever. I'm wondering if a cold start needs to have the clutch lever pulled in while starting.
Unfortunately, living in the Valley of the Sunstroke (Phoenix area), there's not much opportunity to test cold starting.
If someone on this thread has a chance to test cold starting with and without the clutch pulled, I would appreciate it.
This is exactly what my bike is doing. takes about 5 start attempts before it finally runs. I've reset the adaptations (learning settings), throttle body and twist grip settings with the GS-911 as suggested by Mole999. Probably tomorrow I'll try a cold start as it is right around the freezing mark now (and snowing!!). If it doesn't start on first attempt, I'll try pulling the clutch lever in. (doing that will take some load off the starter because some of the tranny gears would not be rotating)
Jim
 

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I store my "16" in my storage shed behind my shop during the winter months and I will periodically go and start it just to run it a little bit and it does exactly the same thing but eventually starts and runs just fine, the one thing I have had happen though is the ignition button when it's really cold and by cold I mean 20* or less will stick either on or off and won't reset until I warm things up in the shed or take it into my heated shop and let it warm up in fact last winter when it stuck on and wouldn't shut the ignition off, I didn't have time to mess with it so I just unhooked the battery and left it until we had warm spell and it started working again. At the time I was worried that I screwed something up but come spring it worked fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Tried to start after doing all the resets. Temp was 1.5 C. Would not start on 1st attempt. 2nd try was with clutch pulled in and throttle open a bit. Would not even fire. Then tried with clutch pulled and throttle at rest, no start. Tried about 5 more times with clutch pulled before it would run.
Sure seems like insufficient cold start enrichment.

Now the really bad news. The roads were dry today, so I took the bike to my sons place about 20 km away for winter storage. Everything was fine until a small hill just before his place where some snow had drifted across the road. Stupid me thought I could ride through it - WRONG. down I went. Felt like I twisted my ankle, but otherwise ok. A person stopped to help and we got the bike up and pushed onto bare pavement. Road the bike a few hundred yards to the garage and we pushed it on his snow covered driveway into the garage. Went to hospital next. Broken fibula and cracked rib!! Pretty sure the bike fell on my ankle as I went down. Now have an air cast until I se the orthopaedic surgeon next week.
A really really stupid 75 year old geezer who should have taken a moment to consider the potential safety risks!
Jim
 

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Sorry about the bad luck Jim. Hope you heal up fast and get back on the bike (when the snow melts).
 
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