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Coronavirus: Bikers fined for 200-mile fish and chips trip


Coronavirus: biker fined after Welshpool crash

Coronavirus Kent: Motorcyclists in Darenth issued with warnings by police after ignoring government guidelines on social distancing

 
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Tyranny. I'm all for responsible citizenry, but there is a limit and a balance to all things. Are there any movements in the UK to combat such over-reach? Is it being considered over-reach?? I'm not a constitutional scholar, or expert on much of anything frankly, but I don't know that any citations on this side of the would stand the scrutiny of prosecution. Prayers that even handed and sensible judgment prevails.
 

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Wow. And civil forfeitures threat too. That's hardcore.

While a couple of states over here have banned it because they realized it feeds corruption and is often unjust, many states only require probable cause of a crime to take everything used or involved - grandma's house, dad's car, etc - even if it was a kid's possession of or selling mj to buddy. Even if never charged with a crime or later found not guilty the burden is on the citizen to prove the money or items seized weren't guilty. Ok. For you legal scholars, that probable cause didn't exist.

Fortunately our Supreme Court has said that forfeitures must be proportional to the crime. Of course this is the same court that thinks life imprisonment is proportional, or at least not unusual or cruel, for stealing $300 of golf clubs.
 

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Silly season here in the UK right now - the fear factor has been wound up to the max & we don't have a detailed exit plan yet. Meanwhile the economy burns.

Still, these bikers all knew they were breaching lockdown rules, so I can't get too excited about the law needing to be seen to dish out punishment - their cheek did make me smile though, looking at my 4 bikes sat in the garage doing nothing..
 

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Silly season here in the UK right now - the fear factor has been wound up to the max & we don't have a detailed exit plan yet. Meanwhile the economy burns.

Still, these bikers all knew they were breaching lockdown rules, so I can't get too excited about the law needing to be seen to dish out punishment - their cheek did make me smile though, looking at my 4 bikes sat in the garage doing nothing..
I agree Squibb

I got a almost new R1250RT in my garage that I have ridden once this year, its killing me. However, we as a society have been asked to do something and that is stay at home. I get it, the disease is transmitted from person to person and I have to play my part in breaking that chain. I gota do something unselfish and think of others for a while and I will do that.

Then I read stuff about bikers (and others) who see themselves as different, some post their "Quarantine Runs" on social media and other sites and then are appalled at being criticised.

There is a way around this dilemma, if you want freedom to do as you want, then so be it.

Sign a disclaimer that if you fall off your bike and need to go to hospital, you give up your right to this, you are prepared to lie on the side of the road and suffer. In addition, if your act of defiance in some way is proven to cause suffering, pain or even death to other people you will suffer the legal consequences of this and go to jail.

Fining idiots just does not seem to work they should take away their toys until this is over.
 

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I have been thinking about how to respond to this thread. I will do my best. I am not wishing to give the message I do not care or that it is all about me. Neither is true.

The way I see things:
  • Houston, we have a problem. It is a big problem
  • We have people in charge that are humans. I mean both political and medical people. They make mistakes. Some are idiots.
  • These people are caught in the moment. They think they are doing the right things....all the time.
The effect of what these decisions people make are making my eyes roll at times.

Complete shutdown of the medical system to ensure there is capacity for covid-19 patients. Hospitals are at some low percent of capacity. And this capacity is never used!!!!!! Meanwhile people are desperate for hip and knee replacements and other important "elective" surgeries. Some people are so ugly they need to have cosmetic surgery!

People walking in a park alone are being fined while people are lining up to get into a grocery store.

If I were in the UK I can get groceries but I can't ride my motorcycle? I disagree with David. These people are heroes. Some may be idiots but they should not be generalized.

I see these contradictions as a failure by our leaders. They are so power mad all they see is one problem. We have many problems this covid-19 shows us. One is how unprepared we were for it. Two how poorly we have responded to it. Three the erosion of basic freedoms for no VALID reason (I can't walk alone in a park or ride a bicycle or motorcycle). Four our economies are grenading.

I am not so arrogant to think I have the answers. Surely the bureaucrats and politicians have the brain power available to them to do this thing right.

I know we will get through this. I hope all of us in free countries demand at the top of our lungs for our basic freedom protections.
 

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People walking in a park alone are being fined while people are lining up to get into a grocery store.

If I were in the UK I can get groceries but I can't ride my motorcycle? I disagree with David. These people are heroes. Some may be idiots but they should not be generalized.

I know we will get through this. I hope all of us in free countries demand at the top of our lungs for our basic freedom protections.
I agree with a lot of what you have said Prince, but not all of it. These guys can't possibly be seen as some sort of heroes.they are selfish human beings.

We are not being asked to go and fight a world war, we are simply being asked to stay at home to break the daisy chain associated with the transmission of a virus, for which we have no cure.

Whilst some of us will only suffer minor ailments, some will die of it. If you want an argument about "freedom protections" take it up with Coronavirus and see who wins.
 

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If you all remember back to the last long discussion we had on this.. I was ringing the bell about our civil liberities being stripped away when some here thought I was crazy. They were on their knees begging people not to ride, stay home, save a life, dont take up space in a hospital..and all that bullshit... its exactly what it is.. bullshit.

Fast forward to today. Hospitals around the US are barren and laying off nurses and other hospital staff. Fathers are arrested for playing catch with their daughter in a park, the police show up at a ladies house because a neighbor called and said her kid spends time at another neighbors house. (I watched the video, its shocking the way the police were talking to her) Local municipalities telling people who own homes but also live in other states they cant come back or.. If you own a summer cabin you cant come use it. These Stalinist governors tell us to go enjoy the outdoors, then when they see a bunch of cars parked at the trail heads they assume we are all up there together violating social distancing rules so the pricks close the trails.. Never mind the fact that the trails are in wilderness areas that cover tens of thousands of acres of public lands.. Closing state and National Parks... ohhh sticks in my craw. The violations of our civil liberties and freedoms are growing daily at an alarming rate. (Has anyone seen the Mayor of Chicago? OMG...) All this being done by state and local leaders who are severely overstepping their bounds, crushing personal freedoms and laying waste to small businesses all around this country.

Then you got people out there shaming others for their personal choices, like not wearing a mask. I’ve seen this with my own eyes and its disgusting, the balls on some people to tell others what to do is amazing. You can bet your donkey if someone tries that with me.. theres gonna be a scene. My freedoms dont stop where your fears begin.. period. If your scared.. stay tf at home and leave the rest of us alone.

Masks... chit, the surgeon general and even those asshats at the WHO have now come out to say they dont do you or anyone else much good. They hold the germs close to your nose and mouth, you touch your face more wearing them, fabric home made ones are about as useful as a screen door since a covid molecule can pass right through. But hey... lets use the same dirty mask day in and day out, people are so stupid. Masks also cause you to breath in more of your own carbon dioxide and less fresh oxygen. No wonder all the employees at my wife’s store constantly tired, comes from wearing a stupid mask during their shift. There’s almost 100 employees at that store and not a single one of them has caught coronavirus.

I'm into collectivism about as much as I’m into being tied to a post and horsewhipped. If you think sitting on your ass at home is going to help this situation your wrong. Its only going to prolong the agony. We dont develop herd immunity hiding in our homes, wearing masks to go outside and staying out of the sunlight like a bunch of fuc king vampires.

Having said that do I feel better now? No, the longer this goes on the more upset I get. There was much better ways to handle this than sending everyone home to house arrest, crushing personal freedoms, personal finance and the world economy.
 

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I agree Squibb

I got a almost new R1250RT in my garage that I have ridden once this year, its killing me. However, we as a society have been asked to do something and that is stay at home. I get it, the disease is transmitted from person to person and I have to play my part in breaking that chain. I gota do something unselfish and think of others for a while and I will do that.

Then I read stuff about bikers (and others) who see themselves as different, some post their "Quarantine Runs" on social media and other sites and then are appalled at being criticised.

There is a way around this dilemma, if you want freedom to do as you want, then so be it.

Sign a disclaimer that if you fall off your bike and need to go to hospital, you give up your right to this, you are prepared to lie on the side of the road and suffer. In addition, if your act of defiance in some way is proven to cause suffering, pain or even death to other people you will suffer the legal consequences of this and go to jail.

Fining idiots just does not seem to work they should take away their toys until this is over.
Some things never change.....

Getting on your bike and taking a reasonable ride hurts nobody. Period. There are few activities that provide greater social distancing. The mental health benefits are priceless.

My local hospitals sit largely empty because the hoards of virus victims never materialized. Staff has been furloughed, left wondering how they’re going to pay their bills. The “science” sometimes doesn’t know it’s azz from a hole in the ground.

Like most situations in life, use your brain. If it’s functioning, it usually leads you to the right choices. If you choose to roll up into a ball and hide under your bed, that’s your choice. But be careful about judging others for theirs.
 

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Most of us are staying at home because we've been asked to and it's the law.

However that is not to say that some of us have doubts as to whether lockdown is the right approach:-

Interesting study at https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.24.20078717v1.full.pdf

TLDR:
This phenomenological study assesses the impacts of full lockdown strategies applied in Italy, France, Spain and United Kingdom, on the slowdown of the 2020 COVID-19 outbreak. Comparing the trajectory of the epidemic before and after the lockdown, we find no evidence of any discontinuity in the growth rate, doubling time, and reproduction number trends. Extrapolating pre-lockdown growth rate trends, we provide estimates of the death toll in the absence of any lockdown policies, and show that these strategies might not have saved any life in western Europe. We also show that neighboring countries applying less restrictive social distancing measures (as opposed to police-enforced home containment) experience a very similar time evolution of the epidemic
.

Joe
 

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Being a veterinarian, I prefer an evidence-based approach rather than an emotional-based one, when it comes to diseases. How many cases of transmission have occurred while riding a motorcycle? For some reason, we have decided that it is acceptable to allow laziness to rule our lives. State-wide or nation-wide lock downs are laziness pure and simple. That's not leadership. Targeted quarantines of at-risk populations is the best method, but that requires doing some work. There are lots of examples of targeted policies. Older drivers in many states must retake a driving test more frequently than younger drivers. Younger male drivers pay more in car insurance premiums than other drivers. Older people get a pneumonia vaccine. If the science isn't there to back up the government's rules, then civil disobedience is to be commended.

I suppose there's also the difference in the British vs American mindset. On that side of the pond, the bulk of the people started out as serfs and have slowly been gaining rights, whereas on this side, the people started out as self-reliant and free, and gradually surrendered rights and freedom to the government. Our northern neighbors are a mixed bag ;)
 

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If our news media detailed every vehicular death, we would not be able to drive.

If our news media detailed every flu death, today's lockdowns would be our norm.

If our news media detailed every lung cancer death, well, maybe that would be good deterrent, but they don't.

The focus on this virus is warranted. But the hysteria surrounding it is not. The news media has everybody in a tizzy about it. The politicians are as scared as anybody. After all, they're supposed to make the right decisions. But they have no clue. They're so scared that they refuse to follow the science or the statistics. The politicians are driven by ignorance and fear.

The bug fairs poorly in sunlight and heat. So let's close all the parks and beaches. WTF kinda backwards logic is that anyway. No logic at all. Simple fear and cowardice.

They have some of you believing that the best thing to do is sit at home and wait it out. Sorry folks, it's not a nuclear holocaust. It's a bug. A bug that we didn't know enough about earlier in the year. A bug that we know much more about today. We don't know everything, but we know the basics about how to protect ourselves and continue to live our lives. It's not a zero sum game.

I wouldn't fault anybody for staying at home. If we do follow the science, the politicians would encourage you old farts to stay at home, encourage the young and healthy to enjoy life and drive the economy, and us 'tweeners to take care using our own judgement.
 

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Some things never change.....
Hi John, not sure what that means, are you talking bikes or pandemics?

Getting on your bike and taking a reasonable ride hurts nobody. Period. There are few activities that provide greater social distancing. The mental health benefits are priceless.
Agreed, as long as you don't cause an accident.

My local hospitals sit largely empty because the hoards of virus victims never materialized. Staff has been furloughed, left wondering how they’re going to pay their bills. The “science” sometimes doesn’t know it’s azz from a hole in the ground.

Like most situations in life, use your brain. If it’s functioning, it usually leads you to the right choices. If you choose to roll up into a ball and hide under your bed, that’s your choice. But be careful about judging others for theirs.
I take it all you guys are following this site:

So, China has a population of 1,408 million. USA has a population of 328 million.
China has reported deaths of 4,600 USA have reported deaths of 70,000+

So you say to use your brain, yes China introduced draconian lock down measures, but the virus is contained. USA and Europe, the "Free World" dithered and did a "Bit" and how many are dead in the "Free World".

All we have been asked to do is stay at home to contain a disease that there is no cure for, I have been in isolation with my wife who is immune deficient for over 8 weeks now, do I want that ?

When will life become "Normal", when we get a vaccine or, we track it down with technology e.g.contact tracing.or we stop passing the virus from one human to another.

Have you got some other solution? if so, share it with us.

This thread started with a story of idiots who broke the law and got fined, the idiots happened to be bikers. To some, these idiots are heroes of the Free World who have gone on a quest to save us from our tyrannical political masters. How stupid that is, these guys were selfish idiots who got caught and IMHO should have had their bikes taken off them until this is over.
 

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Motorcycling and other outdoor activities have been allowed here in GA even during the mandatory stay at home (which was really only strictly obeyed for about a week or two).

Lately, things have become even more relaxed with more restaurants opening up their dining rooms again. The social distancing thing I am afraid will be with us at least through the summer but I suspect people will grow tired and it will eventually become a thing of the past unless the virus deaths start getting out of hand again.

I agree about the hospitals being slow - A friend's wife works in the ER of a large children's hospital in Fulton County (biggest county in the state and where Atlanta is located) and her hours were reduced for the first time in 30 years. Parts of the hospital are closed due to inactivity. This is the county with the 2nd highest incidence of infection in GA according to CDC.

I have heard a total of 3 stories about people who know people that have had COVID-19: All three fully recovered and only 1 required hospitalization.

The wearing of the mask thing I suspect is for reducing the coughing, sneezing and spittle spread of the virus - I agree that it does little, if any, good otherwise. I see people wearing masks while alone in their cars or out for a walk or jog by themselves. I even see people on bicycles wearing masks. People just do what they are told and fail to understand whether they are doing it properly or unnecessarily. Is it the new cool thing to do?

Someone texted me a funny video of an attractive and buxom young lady sneezing into her lifted t-shirt - I would post it but it probably would get removed and I would be censored.
 

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Silly season here in the UK right now - the fear factor has been wound up to the max & we don't have a detailed exit plan yet. Meanwhile the economy burns.

Still, these bikers all knew they were breaching lockdown rules, so I can't get too excited about the law needing to be seen to dish out punishment - their cheek did make me smile though, looking at my 4 bikes sat in the garage doing nothing..
This just makes me beyond livid.

YOU have it correct with the highlighted language above. The MEDIA calling it failure to obey "guidelines on social distancing" in the OP is FAKE NEWS. A "guideline" doesn't come with a threat of arrest or civil forfeiture; a law does. And riding a motorcycle doesn't put you too close to anyone you aren't allowed to be around, like immediate family, unless you pick up strangers at random and ride them around on the back of your bike, so it's not about social distancing at all; it's about, "We ORDERED you to stay home, period. How dare you disobey the godlike decree of the all-powerful State that locks you down?"

I don't really care whether it occurs in a supposed Republican or Democrat dominated area here in the US, or Conservative or Labour in the UK. The particular politics of the particular government thugs is irrelevant. I oppose overreaching, jackbooted government thuggism in all its forms, which ultimately and historically has the potential to kill a lot more folks than the exercise of freedom. Absolute power, of any kind, corrupts absolutely.

Yes, there is a social compact which morally requires us to not do anything to place others at risk, and that's both common sense and being considerate of our fellow-man/woman, but riding your bike not only puts no one else at risk; it's good for the mental health of people cooped up, who might otherwise go nuts and do heaven knows what.
 

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So, China has a population of 1,408 million. USA has a population of 328 million.
China has reported deaths of 4,600 USA have reported deaths of 70,000+

So you say to use your brain, yes China introduced draconian lock down measures, but the virus is contained. USA and Europe, the "Free World" dithered and did a "Bit" and how many are dead in the "Free World".
Given how China hid key facts about the virus, and allowed citizens to freely travel and spread it throughout the world, I give zero credibility to whatever they report. Their propaganda machine is about protecting their national interests. Nothing else. If you take their statistics at face value (which flies in the face of all logic), we have little to discuss.
 

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Whilst some of us will only suffer minor ailments, some will die of it. If you want an argument about "freedom protections" take it up with Coronavirus and see who wins.
Nearly ANY action or inaction any government takes will result in SOME deaths, always has and always will. No one on the side which respectfully but strongly disagrees with you believes that freedom has no potential to cause any more COVID deaths, and no such person believes such lives are meaningless. Rather, what we believe is that either economic devastation OR a slippery government slope to unweening tyranny stand to kill many, many more people than a disease with a 1% kill rate EVER could. And many of us would rather be dead ourselves than to live underneath the heel of a government jackboot standing on our necks.

You're free to disagree, of course, and no offense taken to that disagreement. Everyone gets that there are two sides to the argument. But what I'm tired of is the narrative that the pro-lockdown people are the only ones who care about other people's lives, while pro-freedom folks don't care, and just not true.
 

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Given how China hid key facts about the virus, and allowed citizens to freely travel and spread it throughout the world, I give zero credibility to whatever they report. Their propaganda machine is about protecting their national interests. Nothing else. If you take their statistics at face value (which flies in the face of all logic), we have little to discuss.
Exactly. I would disbelieve just about anything that a Communist country says: Government controls everything. Funny that they haven't claimed any responsibility for the virus; In fact, they tried to blame it on the USA.
 

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Hi John, not sure what that means, are you talking bikes or pandemics?



Agreed, as long as you don't cause an accident.



I take it all you guys are following this site:


So, China has a population of 1,408 million. USA has a population of 328 million.
China has reported deaths of 4,600 USA have reported deaths of 70,000+

So you say to use your brain, yes China introduced draconian lock down measures, but the virus is contained. USA and Europe, the "Free World" dithered and did a "Bit" and how many are dead in the "Free World".

All we have been asked to do is stay at home to contain a disease that there is no cure for, I have been in isolation with my wife who is immune deficient for over 8 weeks now, do I want that ?

When will life become "Normal", when we get a vaccine or, we track it down with technology e.g.contact tracing.or we stop passing the virus from one human to another.

Have you got some other solution? if so, share it with us.

This thread started with a story of idiots who broke the law and got fined, the idiots happened to be bikers. To some, these idiots are heroes of the Free World who have gone on a quest to save us from our tyrannical political masters. How stupid that is, these guys were selfish idiots who got caught and IMHO should have had their bikes taken off them until this is over.
The US deaths are now around 40K. Not exactly a staggering number, given that there have been 752K deaths total.
 

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China has reported deaths of 4,600 USA have reported deaths of 70,000+
You are not really this naive, are you?

I have some beach front property in Arizona for you.

This is just astonishing that anybody could believe this. Just astonishing. I don't have the words.
 
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