Seems like it would be negligible at that level. Since I don’t have access to pure fuel at 93 octane, I use Sea Foam additive. I put it in right before filling up. Haven’t had a problem with the bike or the backup generator I have for power outages.


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I had only once a hard starting problem in 2015 with my first K1600 when it required probably five attempts to fire her up and it took a few minutes to stabilize idle etc. After that experience I changed my starting routine in such way, that I get on the bike, take off the center stand, shake it left and right for a minute to mix potential water deposit around the fuel pump intake and then fire her up. Over here we have minimum 5% Ethanol in the fuel and my bike sits there with whatever is in the tank.

 

Yeah, I probably wouldn't have a problem either way, and I will likely ride within 3-4 weeks, but I may also be having a shoulder surgery in the next couple of months, so I don't really know what my riding will be like for a bit.

Was more of a curiosity though. Theoretically, is there a difference?

 

I have had both shoulders done each time it took 6 to 8 weeks in a sling and then had to work up to full or part motion to gain the strength and mobility back in them. I don't know if that might help with your timeline on being laid up. I took around 3 months before I really got to ride again. Good luck with the surgery if I can offer any help it would be after you get the shoulder out of the sling do the exercises that your physio tells you to do as much as you can and slightly more reps. without overdoing it the more you stretch the easier it comes to gain movement again.

 

Each year before putting the bikes away for the extended Maine Winter duration, I always try to fill them with ethanol-free gas when available. If not, I fill the tanks with premium and then give them a double dose of Marine Sta-bil and run them for about 10 minutes to get some of the gas/Sta-bil mixture through the fuel system and injectors. The blue version of Sta-bil has vapor technology which is supposed to keep your tanks from rusting above the level of gas if they aren't full. I put them all on battery tenders in mid-November and don't touch them until May. Like mentioned earlier, I also slosh around the fuel in the tank before starting. I've been doing it like that for years and have never had any problems in the Spring. Hope I didn't just jinx myself...

 

K bikes tanks are plastic so rust is not an issue.

 

This should help.

 

So basically these fuel additives don't really work that well for stabilization

 

I know some who are forced to use ethanol have a hate relationship with it.

Personally, I think this fear is overblown. We have had ethanol in our gas for 35 years with almost a trillion cars and small motors running it.

Millions of old machines get stored for many, many months with no ill effect.

My personal experience owning old cars, old motorcycles and storing lawn mowers and snow blowers that get stored for long periods is 5 months is not a problem. One year is not a problem. 3 years starts to be a problem. Problems are almost always because it is a volatile fuel where it gases off leaving slowing thickening sludge.

If you believe otherwise go for it and do what's right for you. I am not arguing with anyone over this topic.

 

The stuff (ethanol) is crap for storage.......nothing but trouble

 

Thanks - I didn't know the tank is plastic. Live and learn...

That got me to thinking and I just took a magnet to the gas tanks on all my other bikes and confirmed they are steel.

For what a new OEM K1600 tank costs, it should be made from some type of semi-precious materials...

 

I don't trust Ethyl gas at all! It just goes bad way too fast. I'm not worried about its corrosiveness it just flat goes bad. My lawnmowers used to set from November to March/April and the "grey crust" left behind afterward was crazy. I had a red plastic gas can with alcohol gas turn totally black over winter. If any light can hit the can it will spoil the gas. It turned black as coffee. I just don't trust the stuff in anything that sets for more than 5 minutes (almost). I use it in the vehicles that get used every day and that is it.

 

You had better believe it is corrosive.....If it sits in the carb too long you will get the green/blue sludge that actually eats the aluminum. The crap ate a hole in the float bowl of my ATV

 

The total quantity of ethanol (in your case, 0.15 gallons) is not as important as the concentration of ethanol, which means dilution is good. Just for example, let's say you're worried about the ethanol attacking one particular seal right at the bottom of the tank. If the tank had nothing but 0.15 gallons of ethanol, then the seal would be sitting in pure ethanol. Top off the tank with pure gas, and now you have a 2% ethanol solution. The nasty ethanol molecules are a lot farther apart, so there are fewer of them in contact with any given component in the system.

It's like the difference between a glass of lemonade and a shot of lemon juice.

 

There is no additive which eliminates, nor changes, ethanol. It remains corrosive.

The best bet is to find 100% gas to fill the tank. The key is to leave no room for condensation to occur.

ACE hardware and Home Depot have very expensive pure gasoline in 5 gallon cans. We have a very few gas stations here that offer ethanol free gasoline at the pump, with the $1/gallon added Clean Air Credits.

With a full gas tank, and the rest of the gas being ethanol free, with maybe a little additive (many contain ethanol too), you will be fine.

In the alternative, go on one last ride to empty the tank, as best you dare, then refill with ethanol free gasoline.

 

Does the same amount of ethanol behave less badly over time if it is diluted?

That's almost a philosophical question ... and I'm going to take a different tack:

Burning ethanol in gasoline produces formaldehyde (yes, formaldehyde, the liquid form of which that gets pumped into dead people) and acetaldehyde, a Group 1 Carcinogen.

So, if you're going to replace ethanol-laced gasoline with "real gasoline", it will certainly "behave less badly".

But hey, the upside is that the Legislation requiring ethanol be added to gasoline allowed environutism to keep it's perfect record of making a bad situation worse.

PS - And "yes", there are reams of literature documenting the bi-products and increased health hazards produced by adding and then burning ethanol in gasoline.

 

Burning most biomass produces formaldehyde. Wood, Tobacco, even gasoline (without ethanol) all produce formaldehyde under combustion. Its is also found in any fabric you have that is labeled permanent press. Acetaldehyde is found in all alcohol including what you drink which makes sense because you drink ethanol. Your body converts ethanol into Acetaldehyde among other things that are bad for you. You also ingest it whenever you eat ripe fruit or drink milk. Just because something is 'on a list' doesn't mean that is the entire story. Sunlight is bad for you and so is oxygen if you are exposed to either for long enough and in large enough quantities.

The studies showing increases in formaldehyde production by combusting gasoline containing alcohol are a bit like burning a strawberry scented candle and discovering that it smells like strawberries. Its ethanol, it contains formaldehyde, but then so does a gin and tonic. Those same studies show a doubling in output of formaldehyde when you increase the ethanol mix from E5 (5%) to E85(85%) an increase of 17x which tells you that the amount of formaldehyde produced is not linear with the amount of ethanol in the mix. More importantly however the increase in production of formaldehyde only gets to the levels of toxicity produced by burning pure gas when you burn E85, below that (E5-E15) the levels of toxins are lower than regular gasoline alone.

A direct quote from the most cited study;

"We found that E85 vehicles reduce atmospheric levels of two carcinogens, benzene and butadiene, but increase two others—formaldehyde and acetaldehyde," Jacobson said. "As a result, cancer rates for E85 are likely to be similar to those for gasoline. However, in some parts of the country, E85 significantly increased ozone, a prime ingredient of smog."

I am not defending any chemical and I am all for reducing pollution but formaldehyde is everywhere, it is a byproduct of the interaction of sunlight with our atmosphere. And,, I do enjoy me some good properly distilled and aged single malt ethanol. Just sayin' - oh, and E85 is a bad idea.

 

I broke my thumb and it just wouldn't heal. They put a pin in it and after about a year it was good enough to ride. My old ST1100 sat in the garage the entire year without starting once.
Luckly I had put Stabol in the gas and ran it a bit before it sat. After the year all I had to do is put the charger on the battery for a few hours and it started and ran just fine. The stuff works.

 

I stored my bike in a climate controlled (70°f) building last winter. Parked it in November with half a tank of ethanol-free premium plus a splash of stabilizer. Come April, the bike fired up perfect in the shop. Rode it home and parked it in my 40° garage. The next few cold starts were very rough. It barely started. I ran that tank down to nothing, then filled up with ethanol-free premium again and it started fine in sub-freezing weather. So even ethanol-free can deteriorate quickly. First time in many years that happened, so possibly a fluke.

 

If you want facts then here are the facts: alcohol is about as corrosive as tap water.

I am drinking some ethanol right now in something we call wine.

The technical source for my info is my son who has his M.Sc in Chemistry and works in water purification. He is currently in Florida installing a system at a sugar plant. In February he goes to Hungary for an installation at an alcohol production plant.

It is my belief the problems attributed to gasohol are simply bad maintenance. I have seen a LOT of bad maintenance in the last 4 decades of being an old car and old motorcycle fan.

In the grand scheme of things we believe in what we believe and nothing I say matters at all. I guess I am just a prick for accuracy.

 

The technical source for my info is my son who has his M.Sc in Chemistry and works in water purification.

I gotta tell ya I love this argument. I am not in any way arguing his credentials. But this statement reminds me of like, "I told that LEO he is WRONG I am married to a lawyer" or "you can't do that to cars, my husband is a mechanic!" or even "that thermometer is in the wrong end, my wife is a doctor!"

 

@Prince is not a prick, just correct. I agree with bad MX being the culprit. I have “stored” my bikes every winter with a full tank of treated (Sea Foam) premium fuel and have never had an issue. I say “stored” because the bike is ready to go (battery maintained, tires properly aired) even if it’s been a couple of months since the last riding day.

 

The damage from ethanol is so well documented that it is without question.

E-10 Alive: The corrosive damage ethanol gasoline does to your fuel pump

Looking at the fuel pump in the photo, how old would you say it is? Its a nearly-new fuel pump from a 2003 Harley Davidson with just 11,000 miles on it. How could that much corrosion happen on a motorcycle before it’s third oil change? According to my mechanic it’s ethanol in our gasoline. To […]

www.equipmentworld.com

We are talking about the K1600 here. Phase separation is the key issue, so keeping the gas tank completely filled before putting it to bed is key to eliminating the surface area subject to condensation. Anyone living in a desert doesn't need to be as concerned.

PetroClear - Understanding the Dangers of Phase Separation in Ethanol Blends

petroclear.com

It's worth the effort to store any vehicle with the gas tank full, and if with pure gasoline all the better. Add a stabilizer for more certainty.

After watching this video, is there any question regarding ethanol?

 

For the Maine 6 month Winter storage, my preference is to fully fill my bike/ATV tanks with premium ethanol-free gas or I often have to resort to premium ethanol. Then I double dose with Marine Sta-bil for the vapor technology. It might say Ethanol-Free on the pump but I can't tell if it is really ethanol-free actually coming out of the nozzle. So just in case, I add the Sta-bil. Guess I'm just a belt AND suspenders kind of guy...

This especially applies for my snowmobiles which typically are in storage for 10 months...

 

There are MANY stations in my area that offer ethanol-free gas - usually at 89 Oct at the same price as 10% ethanol high-test or 93 Oct. I use it whenever I can, and happy to pay the premium.

I use the "Pure Gas" app on my phone to find stations when traveling.

 

Asking someone with a vested interest in building ethanol plants about the merits of ethanol does not seem to be very objective.

 

Typical storage for me is a annual process I have to go through being in Wisconsin.
Drain carbs ( if possible) and drain tank.
Add one gallon of race gas I get at local station near a drag strip. If not, use non ethanol premium, and treat with Stabil.
Run bike until this mix until cycled through system.
Refill tank
In spring, drop new gas in, and use Seafoam on first tank.
No issues in many years.
Stabil is a better fuel stabilizer I have found vs Seafoam which is a good cleaner.
While at it, detail bike with some Wizards Mist and Shine and cover for winter.
I put pigtails on all the bikes to make the battery tender easy to plug in without removing cover

 

I only use non-ethanol for the last month (or so) to ensure all of the ethanol is out of the system. I will fill the tank at least 4 times and I know all of the ethanol is gone. This process has worked well for the past 8 years on both of my K1600s.

 

I'm amazed at the amount of misinformation here. Because of the air pollution problems we have here we have been using ethanol in our gas for over 40 years first in just the winter months when it was at the worst and now it's year around so you can not buy gas without it.

All my engines that get stored for any length of time get a dose of Stabil and filled to the top as water in your tank comes mostly from condensation so no air space = no condensation. Ever one of them starts right up when needed for example my cheap lawnmower always starts on the first or second pull after sitting all winter.

As for ethanol being corrosive I have a friend that races an alcohol drag car and his 20 year old storage tank is still as clean and shiny inside as a new penny.

My thoughts are that most of the stories about damage from the 10% ethanol in gas is probably caused from poor maintenance.

I was going to build a high compression E85 383 stroker for my 57 Chevy but with electrics taking over making E85 stations harder to find I'm reconsidering only because E85 will be harder to find.

Alcohol burns much cleaner than gasoline that is why the flames are hard to see and no smoke when it burns. That is one reason Indy banned it years ago for safety reasons they couldn't tell when a car was on fire. until too late. I have witnessed an alcohol race car on fire from 10 feet away and the only clue visually was you could see the heat waves and feel the heat of course.

 

Etha

I don’t know how long it will take before ethanol gums up to the point it’s a problem in a fuel injected engine but I personally have never experienced this even though I’ve let cars and motorcycles sit for over a year without being started up and run. On the other hand, I’ve ALWAYS experienced problems on cars, motorcycles, boats, lawnmowers, generators, weed eaters and ANYTHING else that has a carburetor. Ethanol and carburetors don’t mix.

 

Etha

On the other hand, I’ve ALWAYS experienced problems on cars, motorcycles, boats, lawnmowers, generators, weed eaters and ANYTHING else that has a carburetor. Ethanol and carburetors don’t mix.

You didn't read what I wrote about my experiences did you. 10% in all my carburetor engines with no problems. Proper maintenance solves a lot of problems.

 

I drive 20 miles with 4, 5 gallon fuel cans for 92 octane ethanol free. I try to keep the the bikes full at all times with it. Plus I add seafoam if the bikes are going to sit for a bit. I always keep the bikes topped off.

 

If you read my post I said that I treat my gas with Stabil and make sure the tank is filled to the top so no condensation can happen as most of the reported corrosion is caused by water, not ethanol which can happen with straight gas as well if you leave air space in a storage tank.

 

I wouldn't consider that "maintenance". And no, the corrosion is not caused by the water...our tanks are plastic and can't rust. There is nothing in there that water would harm. The water may cause other problems (won't ignite), but it is most definitely the ethanol that causes the permanent issues. There have been plenty of experiments that clearly show that. Filling up the tank to reduce the air space is unquestionably a good idea, but is filling up the tank with a fuel with a much shorter shelf-life and that is more corrosive to fuel system parts better than than leaving the air space.