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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So,

I just bought a 2015 K1600 GT black with only 215 miles from a private party for $13,000 3 days ago Everything on the bike was as new condition. It started right up and seemed ok. I had a long ride home ahead of me from So California to Las Vegas, NV, (*Yes, I live there.) A few miles into the trip the bike would not rev above 3000 RPM. This was very concerning as I thought the worst scenario. I stopped the bike on the pacific coast highway and phoned a local BMW dealer service department and they said it was 99% sure it was the fuel pump and they could have a replacement in next week and be about $1500 total...

Well that just would not do for me so I found a independent service shop and they do a lot of work on the K1600 and yes, he did have the part and could get it done in 2-3 hours time. I limped the bike, (*on gravity feeding the fuel) 16 miles to his shop and they went to work straight away. The had the internal module and as opposed to BMW who would replace the whole pump and internal tank float, filters etc, it only needed the part that spins the fuel.

The reason it was not working is that the original owner had the bike sit in his garage for 1 1/2 years on a battery tender and the ethanol in the fuel damaged the fuel pump. The bike was fixed for a mere $330 and it runs fantastic. The previous owner did not know anything about the impending pump failure but decided to cover the cost of the repair out of a goodwill gesture. I love this bike and it has the premium package with the Garmin 5, etc. I thought I had done my research on the machine and knew about the weeping water pumps, seat issues, (Although, I like the seat actually.) but I did not see the fuel pump issue as I am sure there are many post about this topic. Lesson learned.

The bike runs and works perfect. 0:)


PS: Check out my "Garage" here.




 

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Glad you got fixed up, but you should know: your bike is still under warranty (less that 3 years old and less than 36,000 miles) so your repair would have been done for free if you brought it to a BMW dealer; 2. no reputable BMW dealer would have replaced anything but the fuel pump if only the fuel pump was damaged; 3. Replacement of a fuel pump on. K1600 by a BMW dealer would not have cost $1,500; nor would a dealer have quoted a price for the repair on a bike under warranty that the dealer had not even seen; 4. usually, a BMW dealer who doesn't have a part like a fuel pump in stock can have the part overnight; 5. most, if not all BMW dealers would not diagnose a problem like yours over the phone. As a bad fuel pump is not a common problem with K1600s, any number of things could have been the cause of your problem from a clogged fuel filter to a leak in the system, to bad gas (much more likely than a bad fuel pump) to malfunctioning coils, to any of those bad things that you were thinking when you were thinking the worst; 6. that a non BMW dealer had the fuel pump to your bike in stock makes you a very lucky buckaroo. It's unlikely that even a BMW dealer would have the part on the shelf. 7. There is no way for anyone but a lab that can disassemble your pump and conduct sophisticated tests on its various parts to know that your pump failed because of ethanol in the gas. 8. It is highly unlikely in any case that your fuel pump would have failed due to ethanol in the gas as there are no parts in it that would have been affected by ethanol. So, please forgive me if I am wrong; but somehow, I'm not buying your story; or as is sometimes said on this forum: I'm calling BS.
 

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There was a fuel pump recall.

You are home and you have a good dealer off 215 that can look everything over. To make sure all recalls and updates are done. To make sure everything is as it should be. $330 to get home was affordable.
 

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2015 GT low mileage loaded for $ 13000 is a steal.................
 

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I am a service manager of a heavy equipment company. I get people all the time calling in asking me to trouble shoot the problems over the phone. Very tuff to do when you don't know the whole story. It could be this or it could be that. Sorry we won't know for sure until someone looks at it. Second the bike is under warranty why not have BMW dealer look at it first? Maybe it could have been fixed for nothing. Not all dealers of bikes,cars etc are crooks or as some call them stealers.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
GTLen,

Glad you got fixed up, but you should know: your bike is still under warranty (less that 3 years old and less than 36,000 miles) so your repair would have been done for free if you brought it to a BMW dealer;
There was no appointments available from any BMW dealer within "Range" when this happened that could look at the bike that day or even within the next few days. Remember, I was not in my home town and leaving the bike and going home was an option that was a disaster in the making. I did not tell the tech what year the bike was and nether did he ask and I am assuming the BMW tech quoted me for a bike that was done recently was not a warranty repair. Yes, at the time I did not consider it a warranty repair. It was a tragic failure and the thought did not occur to me. My only objective was to get it fixed. Yes, it would have been covered in a warranty situation.

2. no reputable BMW dealer would have replaced anything but the fuel pump if only the fuel pump was damaged;
To further this point, the BMW tech said this pump came from BMW as a "Unit" and would be replaced as a whole, not just the part that actually failed within the unit.

3. Replacement of a fuel pump on. K1600 by a BMW dealer would not have cost $1,500; nor would a dealer have quoted a price for the repair on a bike under warranty that the dealer had not even seen;
When I queried the BMW tech about the problem of course he said it could be a mired of possibilities but he did say "With the symptoms you described it sounds like the fuel pump is inop and that he did one with the same exact symptom last week." I then asked the appx cost associated with this repair, (*I had not yet given him the year of my bike.) He said:"Well I just did this repair and the range could be as much as $1500, but the problem has to be diagnosed." Of course I asked for the "Worst case" scenario considering my predicament.

4. usually, a BMW dealer who doesn't have a part like a fuel pump in stock can have the part overnight;
The issue was not if he could get the part but I was limited on the distance I could safely ride the bike in that condition and hence that shop could not "Squeeze me in" until a next week. Yes, my post stated the pump would be "In next week" and I stand corrected that it was the appointment next week, not the pump.

5. most, if not all BMW dealers would not diagnose a problem like yours over the phone. As a bad fuel pump is not a common problem with K1600s, any number of things could have been the cause of your problem from a clogged fuel filter to a leak in the system, to bad gas (much more likely than a bad fuel pump) to malfunctioning coils, to any of those bad things that you were thinking when you were thinking the worst;
I did simply ask what the problem could be and as stated above: When I queried the BMW tech about the problem of course he said it could be a mired of possibilities but he did say "With the symptoms you described it sounds like the fuel pump is inop" and that he did one with the same exact symptom last week Now it was me that pressed him for a "Off the record" diagnose considering my predicament and he obliged knowing my circumstance.


6. that a non BMW dealer had the fuel pump to your bike in stock makes you a very lucky buckaroo. It's unlikely that even a BMW dealer would have the part on the shelf.
Yes, I was fortunate. The part was ordered by the shop and the customer had skipped on the appointment and the part had been there for a while. Lucky, yes, incredible.

7. There is no way for anyone but a lab that can disassemble your pump and conduct sophisticated tests on its various parts to know that your pump failed because of ethanol in the gas.
Modern gas is extremely susceptible to damage fuel component if left untreated in the system. This is a known issue especially for older carburetor bikes. This discussion had been quite involved with an ex Honda guy who was one the development team for one of the "Other" 6 cylinder bike (*Honda CBX) who happens to be the premier rebuilder of only old school carbs, (Welcome to The Motorcycle Project!) and knows the properties/problems of modern fuels, additives, etc. Yes, he is not an authorized BMW tech and has probably never seen a K1600 but his extreme in-depth knowledge of fuel properties is unquestionable. He explained to me the disruptive nature of modern gas left in any fuel system. Now, to be fair, this failure would have to be sent to a lab for analysis and then the outcome would have been the same conclusion with a high confidence level that the gas caused the failure. Could it have been FOD? (Foreign object debris) Not at all likely with the sophisticated filter system within the fuel system.

This is a Scientific paper written of the destructive properties of ethanol based fuels:
"Abstract. Generally, ethanol fuel emits less pollutants than gasoline, it is completely renewable product and has the potential to reduce greenhouse gases emission but, at the same time can present a multitude of technical challenges to engine operation conditions including creation of very adverse engine deposits. These deposits increasing fuel consumption and cause higher exhaust emissions as well as poor performance in drivability."
Link: HERE

8. It is highly unlikely in any case that your fuel pump would have failed due to ethanol in the gas as there are no parts in it that would have been affected by ethanol. So, please forgive me if I am wrong; but somehow, I'm not buying your story; or as is sometimes said on this forum: I'm calling BS.
The tolerance levels of a fuel pump on this bike are high. There is no "Wiggle room" for gas that went stale and created a gunk that prevented the pump from operating. Now I was wondering why you would go to such extremes to dispute my post. For reasons unknown your "Expertise" may have been challenged by my post or perhaps you think I am new to Motorcycles, (*I have 9 bikes, rebuilt 4 from the ground up, been riding for 43 years) and I have been a professional Pilot my entire life and mechanics are not new to me. Of course my Aviation background and the years spent in classrooms discussing fuel and other unrelated mechanics does not qualify me as an expert in the field of modern BMW bikes, but does allow my the ability to comprehend in depth discussions on this subject.

It was not
and frankly what a unwelcome post to a new member here.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
There was a fuel pump recall.

You are home and you have a good dealer off 215 that can look everything over. To make sure all recalls and updates are done. To make sure everything is as it should be. $330 to get home was affordable.
Yes, the bike is due for it's first BMW service. This bike will get the complete "Look-see"
 

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Discussion Starter #11
2015 GT low mileage loaded for $ 13000 is a steal.................
Having bought and sold countless bikes over the years, this one stands tall as the deal of the century. The original owner was a very well to do guy in SoCal and what a pleasant guy to deal with. Very accommodating and he gave me a battery tender to boot! When he found out the issue with the bike, he felt horrible. I explained it was being fixed and I would be on my way in no time. He insisted in paying for the entire repair and wouldn't have it any other way. What a genuine nice person. The repair went quick and cost me nothing. I am still giddy about the bike and fantastic deal I got.
 

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Yes, the bike is due for it's first BMW service. This bike will get the complete "Look-see"
There a number of threads about the fuel system for the K1600. Since it is a one-way system, keeping everything clean is critical. Something that ethanol makes difficult without daily use. I'm an additive guy, others here aren't. Either way, it is prudent to be sensitive to the issue.

http://www.k1600forum.com/forum/bmw-k1600-exhaust-fuel-delivery/29209-fuel-pump-exposed.html

http://www.k1600forum.com/forum/bmw-k1600-exhaust-fuel-delivery/129626-choose-your-fuel-additive-wisely.html

http://www.k1600forum.com/forum/bmw-k1600-maintenance-do-yourself/38657-bmw-service-sheets-600-annual-6-000-12-000-18-000-miles.html
 

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@SkyguyzThat's a great deal! Makes me jealous and I'm glad you were able to get it fixed 'on the fly' like that. Those are truly rare events. Don't be put off by responses you see from time to time, it is actually one of the reasons this forum is as good as it is. It's a very honest response...maybe a little less tactful than it could have been, :hide: but still honest. Lots of good info here so I hope you stick around. Congratulations on the new ride and welcome to the group.....I'm still jealous....
 

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As I said, sorry if I am wrong, but you must be the most amazingly lucky guy in the world to find a rich guy that would sell you a K1600 in perfect condition for your most amazing price and then find a non BMW repair shop that just happened to have the exact part that you needed because someone else went there, didn't leave his bike to be repaired, but the shop nevertheless ordered the part anyway and then, when the guy skips the appointment, the repair shop keeps the part rather than returning it. You found the only shop on the planet that would do that- and with the exact part that you needed. What luck! Even luckier were you that the shop happened to be within riding distance of you with your bike that could not make it safely to the BMW dealer that you first called. You should play the lottery! As a former pilot, and a practicing attorney for over 45 years, Ive learned that these kind of amazing coincidences usually prove to be BS. If yours is not, as I said, you are an amazingly lucky guy and I am sorry for doubting you.

You should know that the fuel pump for your year is part no. 05 16 14 8 523 26. It costs $211 and is a stand alone unit. No need to buy the whole assembly. In any case, it wouldn't have cost anywhere near $1,500 for a reputable BMW dealer to replace the fuel pump. Odd that a dealer would quote even the possibility that you would pay that much for the repair that he said he was expecting to make. Odd that the dealer also didn't ask what year your bike was when he concluded that you had a bad fuel pump. I guess your luck was at play again, because if the dealer or the repair shop asked and learned from you that your bike was much newer than the bikes that had the bad fuel pumps, the BMW dealership wouldn't have assumed that your bike had a bad fuel pump and told you that they couldn't get a new one quickly, which is what prompted you not to go there but, instead, to find the shop that just happened to have the part that you needed.
You should also know as an experienced owner of bikes and cars; but maybe not as a pilot, since aircraft fuel does not have ethanol in it, that ethanol is known to cause breakdown of certain types of seals, lines and hoses on motorcycles not present in the BMW fuel pumps or modern (2015 BMW K bikes, for example) fuel pumps. You were quite specific in your earlier post that your problem was caused by ethanol, not gunk that fuel with or without ethanol could leave over time. Usually some Techron will cure the latter problem. No competent BMW or non BMW shop would have jumped to a bad fuel pump first with a bike that had been laid up for over a year and a half. That someone else happened to have had a bad fuel pump at the repair shop just before you called would not change this. Usually when a pump goes bad, you won't have the symptoms that you describe- bike won't go over 3000 rpms. At 3000 RPMs on K1600 you are moving at a fairly good clip no matter what gear you are in. The bad fuel pumps on earlier model K1600s didn't produce the symptoms that you describe. They sputtered and stuttered and were hard to start. They didn't ref up to 3,000 RPM and not go further.
I don't know why you would think that the tolerance levels of fuel pumps are high and have no wiggle room. They actually are quite tolerant of abuse. They are the same pumps that BMW includes on its R1200Gs and GSA models that are built for abuse and abusice conditions, like whatever fuel,one can get in remote parts of the world. I also don't know why you would report that modern fuel is extremely susceptible to damaging fuel components if left untreated. Most modern gas has additives that make it much less susceptible to damaging fuel components under any circumstances than fuel in the past. Can you see why, even if your post is all true, I would have questions about it. I do apologize if I am wrong though.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
@SkyguyzThat's a great deal! Makes me jealous and I'm glad you were able to get it fixed 'on the fly' like that. Those are truly rare events. Don't be put off by responses you see from time to time, it is actually one of the reasons this forum is as good as it is. It's a very honest response...maybe a little less tactful than it could have been, :hide: but still honest. Lots of good info here so I hope you stick around. Congratulations on the new ride and welcome to the group.....I'm still jealous....
I always look at things in a subjective manner. I know there are a lot of great riders here and the wealth of knowledge can only benefit me. I plan on contributing as much as I can in a "Pay it forward" type of situation. The K1600 is a marvel of technology and as an operator of high tech machines, I will embrace the fantastic design of this bike. I do not discriminate between who rides what. It is simply a passion that is shared by all who ride. If there is anyone who needs "Advice" on the buying, costs, headaches, failures, joys of owning an older classic, (Mid-70's) please feel free to PM me as I can maybe help in that area. For now, I just can't stop peeking win the garage and believing that the K bike is actually here.

*(I have ordered the Heed "tip-over bars" front and rear and will do a report here on fitment, quality etc as this product has not been well reviews here.)








What is it like to ride a 43 year old bike?

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Discussion Starter #16
As I said, sorry if I am wrong, but you must be the most amazingly lucky guy in the world to find a guy that would sell you a K1600 in perfect condition that a rich guy would sell for your most amazing price and then find a non BMW eepair shop who just happened to have the exact part that you needed because someone else went to there, didn't leave his bike to be repaired, but the shop nevertheless ordered the part anyway and then, when the guy skips the appointment, the repair shop keeps the part rather than returning it. Even luckier were you that the shop happened to be within riding distance of you with your bike that could not make it safely to the BMW dealer that you first called. You should play the lottery! As a former pilot, and a practicing attorney for over 45 years, Ive learned that these kind of amazing coincidences usually prove to be BS. If yours is not, as I said, you are an amazingly lucky guy and I am sorry for doubting you.

You should know that the fuel pumps or your year is part no. 05 16 14 8 523 26. It costs $211 and is a stand alone unit. No need to buy the whole assembly. In any case, it wouldn't have cost anywhere near $1,500 for a reputable BMW dealer to replace the fuel pump. Odd that a dealer would quote even the possibility that you would pay that much for the repair that he said he was expecting to make. Odd that the deaker also didn't ask what year your bike was when he concluded that you had a bad fuel pump. I guess your luck was at play again, because if the dealer or the repair shop asked and learned from you that your bike was much newer than the bikes that had the bad fuel pumps, the BMW dealership wouldn't have assumed that your bike had a bad fuel pump and told you that they couldn't get a new one quickly, which is what prompted you not to go there but, instead, to find the shop that just happened to have the part that You needed.
You should also know as an experienced owner of bikes and cars; but maybe not as a pilot, since aircraft fuel does not have ethanol in it, that ethanol is known to cause breakdown of certain types of seals, lines and hoses on motorcycles not present in the BMW fuel pumps or modern (2015 BMW K bikes, for example) fuel pumps. You were quite specific in your earlier post that your problem was caused by ethanol, not gunk that fuel with or without ethanol could leave over time. Usually some Techron will cure the latter problem. No competent BMW or non BMW shop would have jumped to a bad fuel pump first with a bike that had been laid up for over a year and a half. That someone else happened to have had a bad fuel pump at the repair shop just before you called would not change this. Usually when a pump goes bad, you won't have the symptoms that you describe- bike won't go over 3000 rpms. At 3000 RPMs on K1600 you are moving at a fairly good clip no matter what gear you are in.
The bad fuel pumps on earlier model K1600s didn't produce the symptoms that you describe. I don't know why you would think that the tolerance levels of fuel pumps are high and have no wiggle room. They actually are quite tolerant of abuse. They are the same pumps as BM w includes on its R1200Gs and GS A models that are built for abuse and abusuce conditions. I also don't know why you would report that modern fuel is extremely susceptible to damaging fuel components if left untreated. Most modern gas has additives that make it much less susceptible to damaging fuel components under any circumstances than fuel in the past. Can you see why, even if your post is all true, I would have questions about it. I do apologize if I am wrong though.
An Attorney....

Nice argument Counselor, but rather than dispute the above post line for line, (*And there are many holes in your case) I'd rather go out riding. It's Sunday and my good friend is bringing over his R1 to show me. I can't wait to show him the K1600 GT.

Courtroom adjourned.
 

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An Attorney....

Nice argument Counselor, but rather than dispute the above post line for line, (*And there are many holes in your case) I'd rather go out riding. It's Sunday and my good friend is bringing over his R1 to show me. I can't wait to show him the K1600 GT.

Courtroom adjourned.
HAve a good ride.
 

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@SkyguyzThat's a great deal! Makes me jealous and I'm glad you were able to get it fixed 'on the fly' like that. Those are truly rare events. Don't be put off by responses you see from time to time, it is actually one of the reasons this forum is as good as it is. It's a very honest response...maybe a little less tactful than it could have been, :hide: but still honest. Lots of good info here so I hope you stick around. Congratulations on the new ride and welcome to the group.....I'm still jealous....
It seems that tact may not be one of my strongest attributes and I hope that folks on this forum will excuse me for it. I guess I got up,on the wrong side of the bed this am. I was far less tactful in responding to another poster than I was with his.
 

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Welcome to the forum, Skyguyz! I like your style.

Yes... there are a handful of crotchety old coots here who think they know your mind better than you do.. but far more good people.

:grin:

I look forward to seeing you around.
 

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Just as an add to the fuel pump problem. My 2014 K1600 fuel pump failure presented very similar. Idle was fine but when you gave it some gas the engine would sputter. Check engine light was on. You could ride but it was very difficult. Fuel pump failure was diagnosed and replaced in 3 days by BMW Motorcycles of Austin all under warranty. Bike was 2 1/2 years old when the failure occurred.
 
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