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Boom
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Outta This World
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Its another mishmash of old thinking. It presupposes that there is a market for people who want to ride ADV bikes with style from the 70s (other than the TFT). The front end is fugly as.. It honestly looks like a first year CAD project. On the other hand hey, if the price is high enough it may make the GS look like a bargain in comparison.

Harley, Harley, Harley. You need a new audience, which for you means giving up some of your old thinking. You need to appeal to what the market wants today if you want to be competitive with the likes of BMW, Ducati, Triumph, KTM in their strongholds. Look what BMW is doing to you, they took a modern design and dressed it up like one of your baggers and it hurts doesn't it. Beaten at your own game. If you don't figure out how to get out of your rut you are going to die the death of a thousand cuts as every niche runs away from you. I think you have lost your way. Start with why would I buy an ADV from Harley? These are bikes that are supposed to be nimble, rugged, and handle well which would be.. to be kind, not your core strengths. Oh, I know you are going to reach back into your archives to find old footage of an old HD climbing some dirt hill to convince everyone you have the heritage and chops but that isn't enough. It may have been 10 years ago but as your target market ages you need to appeal to the younger end of the demographic as the older end has already been trained to think the GS and its ilk are the way to go. The world has moved on and you are playing from behind on all fronts now, how about taking some of that money and jumping ahead of the pack. Give the market a reason to take you seriously. Be Modern, be Bold, be Innovative. Don't be boring, polarizing, lazy, and mixed in your messaging. I have nothing against HD, I want everyone to win as it is good for the market but, I need a reason to buy something from you and its just not there. KTM maybe, Ducati, yes, BMW yes, Yamaha yes, HD... not so much. Your brand message is passion, freedom, power, individualism, and courage yet what you show is conservatism, safety in styling, a complete lack of passion in where the market is, and extraordinary attention to trying to be ordinary. You have the brand presence that forces the audience to pay attention whenever you announce something but you can only turn people away so many times with false starts and broken promises before they simply give up.
 

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Give the market a reason to take you seriously. Be Modern, be Bold, be Innovative.
They tried that with the LiveWire, but that hasn't resonated with their core market and nobody else seems to care...
 

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Q
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I see where they think it might be a market worth getting into however... can they put the options on it to really compete? I am thinking of ride modes, ESA, traction control etc.. and still be competitive price wise?

This one on the other hand is new and kind of exciting to see from them. I believe this is a step in the right direction if its got bells and whistles to compete with other bikes in its class. In hindsight, I bet HD wishes they would have run with the Buell bikes years ago instead of killing them off. Theres no way this bike could run with my S1000XR but I wouldnt mind a test ride just for the fun of it.

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/future-vehicles/bronx.html
 

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Boom
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Discussion Starter #5
I see where they think it might be a market worth getting into however... can they put the options on it to really compete? I am thinking of ride modes, ESA, traction control etc.. and still be competitive price wise?

This one on the other hand is new and kind of exciting to see from them. I believe this is a step in the right direction if its got bells and whistles to compete with other bikes in its class. In hindsight, I bet HD wishes they would have run with the Buell bikes years ago instead of killing them off. Theres no way this bike could run with my S1000XR but I wouldnt mind a test ride just for the fun of it.

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/motorcycles/future-vehicles/bronx.html
When they backed away from Buell, I think they really started closing up the brand quite a bit. They still had the touring bikes, but everything else really seemed to gravitate towards the same look across the rest of the lineup. Kind of shrinks market opportunity when a company limits itself. Tough to break a new path into areas outside the core, but I no reason it cannot be done if a quality product can be brought to market.
 

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@Darbinco , yeah, I like the looks of that bike quite a bit. I've never ridden an HD, but that looks like a modern, well engineered machine and not at all anachronistic.
 

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What comes to my mind is that Harley has sold their bikes as support for the "life style" that they have promoted for years. Are they willing to market an alternative "life style" for this type of motorcycle? If so what would it look like? Anything new in the motorcycle world is worth looking at and I hope it brings new riders into the sport, that would benefit us all.
 

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Bring it to market and let's see what happens I would like to Demo it on a ADV trail.

My 2 Cents.
 
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Bubonic
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For what it's worth (from a "classic" traditional Harley "styling" perspective): I don't like the way it looks. It looks like they took what they thought were the best ideas on other bikes in the class, and somehow made them look horrible and tacky and slammed them on an awkward looking platform. It looks like something kids would build with legos. That bike looks like Frankenstein's monster painted orange. I'm not Harley bashing (two in garage). I'm just saying YUCK!! Not for me.

However, as stated by @flyjets - I would like to run it up and down some dirt a bunch.


Side thought: Who is the target audience? I'm thinking outside the box...


Google says -

Pangender is a non-binary gender defined as being more than one gender. A pangender person may consider themselves a member of all genders. The prefix pan is Greek and means "all". Pangender is a kind of third gender, much like bigender, trigender, or genderqueer.
 

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Not a fan of the looks. Seems like something you'd see crawling across Mars in a Star Wars movie. I don't know how HD intends to pull away riders from established brands like Triumph, BMW, Ducati, KTM, etc. And, like everything HD, this bike will be premium priced. HD's core riders are not ADV guys and I don't see ADV guys giving this bike a second look.
 

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Bubonic
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Imagine a bunch of old pirates suddenly taking to this type of riding. How wide are those trails?

 

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Some may be missing the elephant in the room. Harley obviously is marketing an "adventure" bike. Enough about that. Like the looks or not, it is what they are doing. HOWEVER, I believe the elephant is in the engine. This is the first all water cooled engine Harley has produced, for as long as I can remember, and it isn't an alternate Buell or a Rotax V-Rod. This is an all Harley engineered, all Harley developed and all Harley manufactured, fully water cooled engine. I can imagine the marketing department discussions; Young Harley executive, "Let's put it in a long term Harley model that for years has been an air cooled behemoth!". Marketing VP, "HE77 NO!!! If you think that d.mn thing will sell, put it in a NEW model! That way, if it flunks we can blame it on the bike and discontinue it!" Young executive; "ok!", walking away with that hung down look.

Seriously, does this mark Harleys entrance into the 21st century??? I, for one, would love to see it. I am certain I will not buy one of those silly adventure bikes, but I would like to see their technology advance.
 

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There are some interesting remarks in this thread. I wonder how many people are against this bike because of the paint job? I noticed that a few remarks mentioned the looks of the bike. But would your opinions change if the bikes looks actually are a positive attribute to the way the bike performs? I'm not one to judge a book by its cover, if it works better then how it looks then it's just a matter of paint, or perhaps a maturing of the CAD designed front end. Perhaps I'm overstepping here but my first reaction to what I read here is that the H-D crowd's perception is that it has to look good before they'd buy it regardless of how it may perform.
 
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International Man of Mystery
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HD had all the opportunities to get into different market segments but they wasted it big time the way how the managed Buell. They had sport bikes and even the 'dual sport' Ulysses. Instead of building a truly separate brand with dedicated management they tried to run it through their time tested model with predictable results. What do you expect to be different now?
 
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Id be willing to bet any sales they take from other brands won't be off people who are looking to buy KTM's or GSA's, It'll be Vstrom and Multistrada's, the adventure bikes made to never leave the road.
 

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Personally, despite the naysayers comments here & elsewhere, I wish them well with these new endeavours.

I can but agree that Buell was a wasted opportunity, as was Aermacchi, but it's important HD learn the lessons of past mistakes, whilst keeping a firm focus on their future direction. Let's see what that PA rides like before we write it off as a fugly heavyweight - we might be surprised.
 

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This may be one of those bikes you buy, keep it in the garage and never ride, as a momento to the time when Harley finally changed direction. The "garage find" of 2099! It could also be another Harley clunker! Just saying.
 

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Outta This World
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There are some interesting remarks in this thread. I wonder how many people are against this bike because of the paint job? I noticed that a few remarks mentioned the looks of the bike. But would your opinions change if the bikes looks actually are a positive attribute to the way the bike performs? I'm not one to judge a book by its cover, if it works better then how it looks then it's just a matter of paint, or perhaps a maturing of the CAD designed front end. Perhaps I'm overstepping here but my first reaction to what I read here is that the H-D crowd's perception is that it has to look good before they'd buy it regardless of how it may perform.
Its the front end, the boxy lines, the way it all comes together, the fender that is guaranteed to pack your radiator full of mud, the fact that it is styled after an adapted scrambler, the brake light tucked so far under the top box that nobody in a pickup is going to see it, etc but mostly its the design aesthetic. I think this thing is going to feel top heavy as well. It does have an adjustable front fork so good for them there and its narrow, also a plus.. Its not the paint.
 

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Some may be missing the elephant in the room. Harley obviously is marketing an "adventure" bike. Enough about that. Like the looks or not, it is what they are doing. HOWEVER, I believe the elephant is in the engine. This is the first all water cooled engine Harley has produced, for as long as I can remember, and it isn't an alternate Buell or a Rotax V-Rod. This is an all Harley engineered, all Harley developed and all Harley manufactured, fully water cooled engine. I can imagine the marketing department discussions; Young Harley executive, "Let's put it in a long term Harley model that for years has been an air cooled behemoth!". Marketing VP, "HE77 NO!!! If you think that d.mn thing will sell, put it in a NEW model! That way, if it flunks we can blame it on the bike and discontinue it!" Young executive; "ok!", walking away with that hung down look.

Seriously, does this mark Harleys entrance into the 21st century??? I, for one, would love to see it. I am certain I will not buy one of those silly adventure bikes, but I would like to see their technology advance.

The elephant in the room is the revolution motor engineered by porche and was used in the v-rods. All they have done is refaced the motor making the HD more noticeable. I'm glad they pulled it off the shelf and are using it as it's a bullet proof motor. I put 74K on a 09 V-Rod Muscle and never had a failure. Now if they just put that motor in a bagger frame maybe they'd have something.
 
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