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Discussion Starter #1
I have Mitchelin Pr4 tyres on my bike and they are resonably new, with 500 miles of use. They are inflated to 2.8 bar on my recent trip, they had dropped down from 2.9 due to the cold and wet conditions. I was a solo rider with a fait bit of luggage.

I have noticed that when i lean into a bend the steering wants to turn further and i have to exert pressure to stop it. It feels unusual and i am having difficulty in getting used to it.

It feels to me, as if i am too uright for the bend, if i allow the bike to settle, to its natural lean angle for a bend.

I hope i am making sence and would appreciate any views on what is happening or is it me, but i have been riding bikes for years and do enjoy the bends.




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Is another way of saying what you are describing is that it "falls into the corner"

Certainly compared to my GSA, the K falls in more, My old RT behaved in much the same way. Tyres make a difference, it was worse on the original Bridgestones, better on the Metzler Roadtec 01's, until they began to wear. I'm on a new set now, and the effect is not noticeable, or probably won't be until I ride the GSA for a while and come back to the K.

I think it depends on tyre make, wear and pressure. You'll get used to it, just keep the tyre pressures ****-on.

Joe
 

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Techmeister
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What I am reading I take as normal behavior; you seem to be describing counter-steering. Are you finding that at the point you enter the turn (say right-side), that you push into the handlebars on that same side? Meaning; in a right-side turn, you push the right-side handlebars.

Your angle of attack on the motorcycle is affected by counter-steering, but also your position on the seat. If in the same turn, you move your butt to the "high-side" of the seat you also affect the relative lean angle. I use this at very slow speeds to help my "lock-to-lock" turns in a parking lot.

Not knowing you, I am suggesting things which are, on their surface, basic. Please correct my understanding if I am wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Is another way of saying what you are describing is that it "falls into the corner"

Certainly compared to my GSA, the K falls in more, My old RT behaved in much the same way. Tyres make a difference, it was worse on the original Bridgestones, better on the Metzler Roadtec 01's, until they began to wear. I'm on a new set now, and the effect is not noticeable, or probably won't be until I ride the GSA for a while and come back to the K.

I think it depends on tyre make, wear and pressure. You'll get used to it, just keep the tyre pressures ****-on.

Joe
It definatly falls into the corners more with these tyres, but it seems to fall too far. It looks like i will have to get used to it.

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I have Mitchelin Pr4 tyres on my bike and they are resonably new, with 500 miles of use. They are inflated to 2.8 bar on my recent trip, they had dropped down from 2.9 due to the cold and wet conditions. I was a solo rider with a fait bit of luggage.

I have noticed that when i lean into a bend the steering wants to turn further and i have to exert pressure to stop it. It feels unusual and i am having difficulty in getting used to it.

It feels to me, as if i am too uright for the bend, if i allow the bike to settle, to its natural lean angle for a bend.

I hope i am making sence and would appreciate any views on what is happening or is it me, but i have been riding bikes for years and do enjoy the bends.




Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
Funny how subjects ring a bell. I just returned from a fantastic 3 day trip through North West Slovenia, wow, wow, wow. Three days of beautiful twisties and the vista's, simply wonderful. That said I noticed my 2018 GTL, on well worn but not beyond any legal limit or otherwise, Metzler 01's was wanting to over-lean into corners to the extent that I was exerting a counter force on the bars to stop it? I was one up with a small amount of luggage for 3 days evenly distributed in the panniers with my normal kit in the top box.....Tyre pressures were 2.9 bar (42psi I think).

As a retired Pilot I would say the bike was unstable, ie. it continues to want to turn of its own volition as opposed to be stable or neutral. All that said with the caveat that on occasion considerable and noticeable force was required to stop the instability, the bike performed flawlessly supplying the usual ear to ear grin one gets when executing a bend at speed on a good line.

As to any possible explanation, I have no idea. As winter is approaching I will keep the tyres as is hoping the new Dunlop RS IV's hit the shops here before a replacement is due in the spring. Unless we have a good winter......we live in hope 😁
 

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Discussion Starter #6
What I am reading I take as normal behavior; you seem to be describing counter-steering. Are you finding that at the point you enter the turn (say right-side), that you push into the handlebars on that same side? Meaning; in a right-side turn, you push the right-side handlebars.

Your angle of attack on the motorcycle is affected by counter-steering, but also your position on the seat. If in the same turn, you move your butt to the "high-side" of the seat you also affect the relative lean angle. I use this at very slow speeds to help my "lock-to-lock" turns in a parking lot.

Not knowing you, I am suggesting things which are, on their surface, basic. Please correct my understanding if I am wrong.
I know what your saying about counter steering, i use it quite a lot. I need to find out what i am doing, it looks like im not used to the new tyres. Im going to ride it again and give it some more thought. Thanks.

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Discussion Starter #7
Funny how subjects ring a bell. I just returned from a fantastic 3 day trip through North West Slovenia, wo, wow, wow. Three days of beautiful twisties and the vista's, simply wonderful. That said I noticed my 2018 GTL, on well worn but not beyond any legal limit or otherwise, Metzler 01's was wanting to over-lean into corners to the extent that I was exerting a counter force on the bars to stop it? I was one up with a small amount of luggage for 3 days evenly distributed in the panniers with my normal kit in the top box.....Tyre pressures were 2.9 bar (42psi I think).

As a retired Pilot I would say the bike was unstable, ie. it continues to want to turn of its own volition as opposed to be stable or neutral. All that said with the caveat that on occasion considerable and noticeable force was required to stop the instability, the bike performed flawlessly supplying the usual ear to ear grin one gets when executing a bend at speed on a good line.

As to any possible explanation, I have no idea. As winter is approaching I will keep the tyres as is hoping the new Dunlop RS IV's hit the shops here before a replacement is due in the spring. Unless we have a good winter......we live in hope
The posts so far are very interesting and i am going to ride the bike again and see what i am doing. I have no gripes about its handling i just need to understand what i am doing, something is differend having changed tyres. Thanks.

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Mr.Fix It
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@john.grieveson , The dynamics of cornering on a motorcycle, with the rider maintaining a constant position in-line with the motorcycle will, requires constant counter-steer/pressure to turn. If you let up on the counter-steer/pressure the gyroscopic effect of the wheels will right the motorcycle.

Based on this your statement, "I have noticed that when i lean into a bend the steering wants to turn further and i have to exert pressure to stop it." doesn't make since to me. Maybe I'm misreading what you've written...

Duane
 

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As Techmeister says, it's counter steering. My big Harley needed to be pushed until coming out of the curve, hit the throttle and she'd stand up. The GA feels like after I dip it into a curve, I kind of pull back a little. Both counter steering. The BMW is nimble, lots easier to ride, just feels right to me.
 

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@john.grieveson , The dynamics of cornering on a motorcycle, with the rider maintaining a constant position in-line with the motorcycle will, requires constant counter-steer/pressure to turn. If you let up on the counter-steer/pressure the gyroscopic effect of the wheels will right the motorcycle.

Based on this your statement, "I have noticed that when i lean into a bend the steering wants to turn further and i have to exert pressure to stop it." doesn't make since to me. Maybe I'm misreading what you've written...

Duane
Had exactly the same over leaning thing on my GTL, including today. I suspect tyres/tyre wear. She turns in and wants to lean further, I then have to counter steer to stop the additional lean tendency and hold the correct line. Your 'gyroscopic' argument is both correct and clear. Quite what is going on with this is beyond me......
 

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I have Mitchelin Pr4 tyres on my bike and they are resonably new, with 500 miles of use. They are inflated to 2.8 bar on my recent trip, they had dropped down from 2.9 due to the cold and wet conditions. I was a solo rider with a fait bit of luggage.

I have noticed that when i lean into a bend the steering wants to turn further and i have to exert pressure to stop it. It feels unusual and i am having difficulty in getting used to it.

It feels to me, as if i am too uright for the bend, if i allow the bike to settle, to its natural lean angle for a bend.

I hope i am making sence and would appreciate any views on what is happening or is it me, but i have been riding bikes for years and do enjoy the bends.




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The issue sounds like your tires. However, by having an adjustable steering dampener one can adjust this feel on the bike. The K1600 has a steering dampner but, it is not adjustable.

Best,

Doc :unsure: :unsure:
 

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The issue sounds like your tires. However, by having an adjustable steering dampener one can adjust this feel on the bike. The K1600 has a steering dampner but, it is not adjustable.

Best,

Doc :unsure: :unsure:
I have Mitchelin Pr4 tyres on my bike and they are resonably new, with 500 miles of use. They are inflated to 2.8 bar on my recent trip, they had dropped down from 2.9 due to the cold and wet conditions. I was a solo rider with a fait bit of luggage.

I have noticed that when i lean into a bend the steering wants to turn further and i have to exert pressure to stop it. It feels unusual and i am having difficulty in getting used to it.

It feels to me, as if i am too uright for the bend, if i allow the bike to settle, to its natural lean angle for a bend.

I hope i am making sence and would appreciate any views on what is happening or is it me, but i have been riding bikes for years and do enjoy the bends.




Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
Hi!
To me, this accurs when you have wared tires. But that's not the case in here. The only thing I can thing of (if you have good tires, right pressure) is too slow speed.
 

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Outta This World
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Had exactly the same over leaning thing on my GTL, including today. I suspect tyres/tyre wear. She turns in and wants to lean further, I then have to counter steer to stop the additional lean tendency and hold the correct line. Your 'gyroscopic' argument is both correct and clear. Quite what is going on with this is beyond me......
I don't understand either explanation. Counter steering makes the bike lean more, you are in essence driving the tire out from under the bike, this causes the bike to lean MORE. To straighten the bike up (stop it from leaning) you actually apply LESS countersteering.
 

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Q
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I don't understand either explanation. Counter steering makes the bike lean more, you are in essence driving the tire out from under the bike, this causes the bike to lean MORE. To straighten the bike up (stop it from leaning) you actually apply LESS countersteering.
Best I can figure his new tires are a bit more responsive than his old ones. He is using the same counter steer as he used to but the bike is falling further into the corners than what he is used to.

We all know new tires always have a different feel than the old ones you just peeled off.. especially if they are a different brand. If the OP want to feel a tire that really falls into a corner he should mount up some RSIII's next time. Love those tires, you just think about the corner and the bike does it.. its like magic!
 

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I notice that when I want high lean angles I brig my shoulders forward and towards the direction of turn. This gives both elbows more bend and seems more natural to push on the inside handlebar(counter steer). I wonder if you also notice this. As your not yet as confident on new tires, might you be bending your elbows more, thereby adding more pressure to the inside handlebar?
 

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My k loves to dive into turns, I have rather worn pilot4s, with an obvious ridge on each side of the center tread and moderately scalloped. Running at 37psi . I enjoy the lean but am not trying to push it, Have not scraped the pegs yet. So I imagine I am not leaning in too far....this Bike is more capable than I....
 

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I tend to notice the bike falling into turns more than other bikes I've ridden. My answer to the phenomena is to smoothly apply more throttle which puts more weight on the back tire and shifts my body weight back reducing my pressure on the hanldebar. Thus, helping the bike straighten itself. Problem solved. 🧙‍♂️
 
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