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Update:
I had to agree to a third attempt to fix the oil leak between the engine case and the notorious water pump as lemon laws in Germany are not as clear cut as it seems. Depending on what kind of equipment you buy, you may have to accept up to three repair attempts. Anyway, in went water pump #3 and I got the bike back for extensive testing. If oil leak shows up again, we are in a forced buy back situation and I will claim all losses that occurred in the context of the oil pump problem. The other things like windshield actuator, NAV6, Spragg clutch were fixed, left pull has not been acknowledged as problem yet, but I am working on it.
Dealer mentioned that they received some envelope from BMW to compensate me for my trouble once the bike turns out to be OK. We will see what is in the envelope once the time comes. Maybe a free weekend on a demo R18.........can't wait to get my butt on this piece of nonsense.
As I said earlier, my love affair with the BMW K1600 is over and from now on it is like my divorced wife to me. Costs money, spells trouble and means nothing to me anymore.

Currently looking at a Triumph Tiger 1200 and likely will buy one before Triumph screws up the great triple engine by introducing for 2021/2022 a T-crank to give it more 'character' by making it vibrate more across the rev range. Character, my ass...........
I couldn't agree more with your sentiment. The problem I have is what next. The new Gold Wing is a possible but the reduced luggage. or
 

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International Man of Mystery
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Discussion Starter #82
Update 2
Bike status update:
Starter OK
Windshield OK
Fuel door OK
Left pull unchanged
Water pump leaking now coolant instead of water
If I can pick I prefer coolant on the rear tire over engine oil. Really sad story BMW.

Looks like my lawyer gets some work now.

145607
 

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Finally, people are waking up. I‘ve been saying for years that BMW reliability is pathetic. And so many times in the past people have started threads that they’re done with BMW and then the Kool-aid drinkers reply to the OP with a “See Ya. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out”.

Finally, it looks like more people are realizing the truth. And if people keep buying the bikes and opening their wallet, why would BMW bother to attempt to improve quality & reliability?

Time to start accepting the facts and speaking with your wallets Folks.

How much sh&t did Mckeena catch for posting about his overheating issues? People attacked him like crazy for his posts. And there are dozens others that have complained in the past, and most forum members tell them to pound sand. Glad to see people are FINALLY coming around.

I still have my 2012 which has been decent, but I’m not going to roll the dice again.
 

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Update 2

Water pump leaking now coolant instead of water
If I can pick I prefer coolant on the rear tire over engine oil. Really sad story BMW.
Looks like the tube from the water pump weep hole is not in its hole in the exhaust heat shield.

I suspect most of these bikes have a very small amount drip from the pumps mechanical seal weep hole, and what BMW has done to mask it is discharge it onto the hot exhaust behind the heat shield.

Also looks like the wire from the O2 sensor is not correctly routed.

145608
 

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International Man of Mystery
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Discussion Starter #86 (Edited)
that little hose routed into the heat shield was a band aid to hide the leaking pumps. I have no desire to find out when BMW came up with this masterpiece of engineering. My 2014 didn’t have it and yes the hose in installed wrong, came that way from the shop.
 

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@ViennaK I've been following this thread and am really sorry that what should have been a happy swansong K1600 ownership experience has turned into such a shambles.
Looks like my lawyer gets some work now.
Hopefully a simple letter rejecting the bike as not fit for purpose will get the matter resolved, but if not then at least treat the fight as "sport" and have some fun with it.
 

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I‘ve been saying for years that BMW reliability is pathetic.
Based upon the experience of many friends who have and do own BMW's and also a friend who owned a BMW motorcycle dealership for many years until he retired a couple of years ago, I completely agree.

When I bought my K1600GT last year it was with the full expectation that it will suffer more failures in the three year warranty period than I experienced in 27 years of owning and riding Honda ST1100's and ST1300's all over Europe. However, I needed to scratch the itch of owning and using a 6-pot bike before that becomes an impossibility and the choices in that field are extremely limited. And when the K1600 is working as it should, it really is a sublime experience.

I honestly think that too many owners (and I include myself in that, for obvious reasons) are too willing to accept the shoddy design and shoddy manufacture that is prevalent pretty much across the BMW Motorrad range. Loaning owners bikes and fixing things under a warranty when their own bike craps out are not signs of good service - they're band-aids to mitigate the effects of poor design and manufacture.
 

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Based upon the experience of many friends who have and do own BMW's and also a friend who owned a BMW motorcycle dealership for many years until he retired a couple of years ago, I completely agree.

When I bought my K1600GT last year it was with the full expectation that it will suffer more failures in the three year warranty period than I experienced in 27 years of owning and riding Honda ST1100's and ST1300's all over Europe. However, I needed to scratch the itch of owning and using a 6-pot bike before that becomes an impossibility and the choices in that field are extremely limited. And when the K1600 is working as it should, it really is a sublime experience.

I honestly think that too many owners (and I include myself in that, for obvious reasons) are too willing to accept the shoddy design and shoddy manufacture that is prevalent pretty much across the BMW Motorrad range. Loaning owners bikes and fixing things under a warranty when their own bike craps out are not signs of good service - they're band-aids to mitigate the effects of poor design and manufacture.
What I bolded in your post pretty much sums up the tradeoff for the BMW decision.

I'm not a single minded BMW fanboy. On my 2018 GTL, I've suffered the tranny recall, had the engine replaced due to excess oil consumption, and had a starter clutch go bad on the new engine after just 200 miles on the clock. On my prior K1200LT, I had to replace the entire ABS module and experienced several issues with the final drive. At some point the reverser crapped out, and being an 850lb beast, that wasn't a good thing. The bottom line is that I've earned the right to piss-and-moan as much as anyone. ;)

Having said all this, the BMW experience (to me) is worth the price of admission, including all the warts many of us suffer. There isn't another bike on the market that provides the 2-up capabilities of the GTL. Nothing remotely close. So I budget more than I otherwise would for maintenance, and just enjoy the experience. If this tradeoff doesn't work for others, then buy something else. By the time most of us get to a K16, we have a track record of owning BMWs. None of this stuff should be a surprise. Since BMW isn't going to change their stripes, just make your own informed decision and move on.
 

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International Man of Mystery
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Discussion Starter #90
As I said earlier, my attitude towards this bike is the same as to my divorced wife. Costs money, spells trouble and does not mean anything to me anymore. BMW still has the option to keep me as a paying customer, but they need to step up their approach a fair bit. A loaner and a T-shirt will not cut it this time. At 63, this will definitely not be my last bike and there are options out there once you widen your focus a bit. For the kind of money I put down for a full specced K1600 I can buy two bikes like a Triumph Tiger 1200 and a Royal Enfield Continental and still have a lot of gas money left.
 

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As I said earlier, my attitude towards this bike is the same as to my divorced wife. Costs money, spells trouble and does not mean anything to me anymore. BMW still has the option to keep me as a paying customer, but they need to step up their approach a fair bit. A loaner and a T-shirt will not cut it this time. At 63, this will definitely not be my last bike and there are options out there once you widen your focus a bit. For the kind of money I put down for a full specced K1600 I can buy two bikes like a Triumph Tiger 1200 and a Royal Enfield Continental and still have a lot of gas money left.
I'm by no means discounting what you're going through. It's crappy and we deserve more as customers. You have every right to go after them.

Your BMW dealer has more latitude than a "loaner and a T-shirt" in trying to keep you a satisfied customer, without needing prior approval from the Mothership. At least that's the case in the US. Good luck with this.
 

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Is this really not the same as comparing a Honda Accord to a Ferrari (or similar)? Cutting edge performance in the category vs. an everyday driver comes with its costs. If an Accord had the reliability of a Ferrari, it would have been dead a long time ago, yet both survive and fit their markets quite well.
 

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What I bolded in your post pretty much sums up the tradeoff for the BMW decision.
John, buying a BMW motorcycle should not be a trade off. After 10 years of development (or non development) the Flagship BMW motorcycle is still beset with issues, this thread has brought out a lot of unhappy customers.

As customers, we have the right to expect the motorcycle we have purchased to do the job it is supposed to do. That is a perfectly reasonable stance.

I get it that you budget for the K16 downtime in your life, but for others, life is too short to take that approach.
 

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Finally, people are waking up. I‘ve been saying for years that BMW reliability is pathetic. And so many times in the past people have started threads that they’re done with BMW and then the Kool-aid drinkers reply to the OP with a “See Ya. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out”.

Finally, it looks like more people are realizing the truth. And if people keep buying the bikes and opening their wallet, why would BMW bother to attempt to improve quality & reliability?

Time to start accepting the facts and speaking with your wallets Folks.

How much sh&t did Mckeena catch for posting about his overheating issues? People attacked him like crazy for his posts. And there are dozens others that have complained in the past, and most forum members tell them to pound sand. Glad to see people are FINALLY coming around.

I still have my 2012 which has been decent, but I’m not going to roll the dice again.
Some the words you use, I define very differently than you. "Pathetic" is pretty clearly this new bike of @ViennaK 's. I've not seen anyone argue otherwise. Further, I've seen lots of folks here (including yours truly) tell multiple people stopping buy to ask about the overall BMW experience, including reliability, and I've not seen anyone try to claim BMW's reliability is the equal of any of the big 4. It's not, and neither is MV Augusta, Triumph, Moto Guzzi, Ducati, Benelli, Aprilia, or any other non-big-4 brand.

In addition, we'd all admit we've seen examples where BMW's CS wasn't top notch. Still, on average and overall, I'd put it head and shoulders above anything from the big 4 if you draw the short straw and have a problem.

Moreover, as for @DavidMcK 's overheating issues resulting in people attacking him like crazy or telling him or someone else to go pound sand, I've not seen it. Overheating's a known imperfection of the bike. Someone else posting that they've never a personal problem isn't denying he has. In addition, not referring to David specifically, once someone has gotten something off their chests for a few posts, asking them to stop posting about the same thing over and over again isn't attacking them. To me, an attack is what Jeffrey Ross does to people in a Friar's Club roast. Or beginning a cross-examination with, "You're a liar, aren't you, Sir?"

"Dude, let it go," is not an attack. I've been "that guy" who got corrected before, and have been forced to admit that even when you're 100% correct, at some point, you're not doing anything productive by ringing the same bell over and over and over again. Neither is disagreeing that the given overheating issue renders the whole bike "unacceptable." That's a personal opinion and decision, either yea or nay, and either can be justified. Again, the vast majority of us know it's been reported by enough folks, and that it exists on a lot of these bikes. We know it shouldn't be there. And we know Yammie, Honda, Kaw and Suzy are more reliable.

But for some of us, on balance, we endure that from BMW because for a given mission, they make the only bike we'd care to own, and if we swore off BMW, we'd be limited to other styles of riding. I'd have to quit any long-distance touring, and if I did long-distance anything with a motorcycle, I'd likely just trailer a large or more relaxed sportbike (aka the "sport" end of sport-touring) or dual-sport to my destination.

The Connie and FJR1300 are TOO sporty for me to do long miles on without a ton of comfort mods, and while I'm sure the Wing is more reliable than a K1600 on average, it also personally just bores me to tears.

Adv. riding? If you hate BMW, at least the big 4 finally offers something other than the drastic drop-off in features that comes with the reliable V-Strom, in the form of the Africa and Tenere. And most people not named Marquez or Rossi probably can't tell that much practical difference between a R1, a GSX-R1000 and the S1000RR, so you can swear off BMW and move to other choices and not miss a beat.

But this bike? Where's the real parallel? I don't see one. For example, you and many here have expressed love for the incredible and awesome Kaw H2 SX (I hate the looks, and that **** Kaw green, but that's nothing but a purely subjective opinion, and so it doesn't count), but it's only in the "sport-touring" category with the K1600 in the broadest sense, and it's hard for me to believe the same person would be perfectly happy and comfy touring cross-country to get to various sets of twisties on both of them. Put differently, IF someone DOES really like the Kaw H2 styling, loves pure sport riding, and WOULD be happy doing long-haul touring on it, and didn't buy a bike until after it came out (yours is a '12 and so this doesn't apply to you) and bought a K1600 instead, I'd be the first to question the decision, and predict unhappiness with the K1600, even if it turned out to be reliable. For such persons? Buy the Kaw and be done with it.

Last, on something that doesn't apply to any of our regulars, mad at the bike or BMW or not, when someone who has a very low post count, and appears to have joined just to trash the bike (or a car, and/or any marque on such a forum) is invited to "not let the door hit 'em where the good Lord split 'em," that's totally different. Now, it IS an attack if expressed like that (but usually here, it's far more tactful and takes the form of, "Perhaps this just isn't the motorcycle for you, and you'd be happier if you chose something else."), but if in response to what appears to be a trolling attack by a total stranger, it makes sense to invite such trolls with a singular purpose to leave. The most unreliable car ever sold outside the communist bloc states (and ironically, made BY a former such state) was by many measures the Yugo, and if someone bought a Yugo and learned it stunk, there is NO possible purpose other than stirring the pot for someone to find a Yugo forum and post that the car sucks.

As a long-time owner and member, you've made your dissatisfaction well known, and apologies if I missed something, but I don't know anyone in my time here who's invited you to leave, or done anything other than respectfully disagree with you.
 
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Is this really not the same as comparing a Honda Accord to a Ferrari (or similar)? Cutting edge performance in the category vs. an everyday driver comes with its costs.
I don’t subscribe the the theory that performance vehicles have to suffer poor build quality or reliability. That is often the case, but purely because the customer base accepts it as “part of the ownership experience”, which is wholly wrong, imo.

Bluntly, a 1650cc 6-pot motor shouldn't be considered stressed to produce 160bhp. Yet the K1600 cooling system is marginal, water pump leaks are commonplace and some examples burn almost as much oil as fuel (ok, that‘s an exaggeration but you get my point).

Don't get me wrong, I knew I was buying an expensive bike with a high chance of it failing me. I chose to do that due to a combination of desire and lack of alternatives that would meet my specific wishes. IOW, I made a conscious trade-off regarding the riding experience when it’s working and expected reliability. I have low expectations in respect of reliability and am therefore unlikely to be disappointed ;)

It used to be a joke in the U.K. motor trade that you had to have a sense of humour to own a Lotus because if you couldn’t laugh about the failures and breakdowns you’d be suicidal. It appears that BMW Motorrad are the new title holders in that particular race.
 

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The gearbox recall was shameful, one of those WTF moments that will have left many of us questioning our sanity. I get the distinct impression that, rather than be proud of producing the best premium sports touring motorcycle on the Planet, accountants have been allowed to interfere, by perpetually looking for ways of pinching that extra cent of profit margin.

The abysmal handling of the recall led to us all suffering the longest thread in this forum's history. The whole debacle must have cost BMW a small fortune financially, it left their dealers fielding many angry customers & simply undermined the brand's reputation internationally. It won't be easy to climb back from there & we still don't know whether a revised Euro 5 compliant K16 will emerge as the whole focus seems to surround the new R1800 currently.

No doubt Honda have been celebrating. I quite fancy trying a GL1800 Tour DCT.
 

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Overheating's a known imperfection of the bike. Someone else posting that they've never a personal problem isn't denying he has. In addition, not referring to David specifically, once someone has gotten something off their chests for a few posts, asking them to stop posting about the same thing over and over again isn't attacking them.
Hi Joey, no one ever told me that Overheating was a known imperfection. If it is, BMW should stick a label on it and say so,

However, BMW doesn't not do that and people buy the bike and they have overheating problems and tie subject comes up again and again, I don't want to change this to an "Overheating" thread cause that means the thread will be closed. Just wanted to clear things up from my point of view.
 

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I don’t subscribe the the theory that performance vehicles have to suffer poor build quality or reliability. That is often the case, but purely because the customer base accepts it as “part of the ownership experience”, which is wholly wrong, imo.
Anything that is low volume and doesn't share a LOT of content with something high volume is going to have a much greater chance of undiscovered issues. In order to even make it to market, you have to project how many will be sold and how much you can afford to spend on testing it pre-market. If the sales are not going to be that high, you either have to not test quite as thoroughly or plan to charge prices that no one will pay. The high volume products can amortize the cost of testing across 10 times as many vehicles, making the cost of testing cheap.

I see it as just a matter of economics in a revolutionary step on a small volume complicated machine. You can pay for high tech, you can pay for highest quality, but if you want both, it will cost even more.
 

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Sir Robin’s Lead Minstrel
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John, buying a BMW motorcycle should not be a trade off. After 10 years of development (or non development) the Flagship BMW motorcycle is still beset with issues, this thread has brought out a lot of unhappy customers.

As customers, we have the right to expect the motorcycle we have purchased to do the job it is supposed to do. That is a perfectly reasonable stance.

I get it that you budget for the K16 downtime in your life, but for others, life is too short to take that approach.
Perfect example of my above post, David. Your post here is reasonable, as is someone's who chooses differently, like John's. Everyone has to make their own choices, and when no one's either trolling or beating a dead horse, everyone should be entitled to express their opinion.
 
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