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The comment on the Bren website that the 1600 ECU is organized like the S1000RR sheds some light on the question. In that ECU BMW employs something they call Reduction Pre-Control. It's a control table that limits the amount of throttle applied, regardless of rider demand, based upon the traction that it thinks is available at various lean angles and gear selected. It's designed to smooth the transitions in and out of traction control. For example, it "knows" that in the first few gears, and at high lean angle, that large throttle openings will overwhelm the expected traction of the rear tire - so it won't deliver a full throttle opening in those cases. Otherwise, the actual traction control would be activated much more often and seem more intrusive.

The guys that have this whole system well understood are the racers that have worked with BMW and Bosch to provide their own tailored tuning. The best explanation I've seen on the subject is a fairly long thread on the S1000RR forum and can be found here:

https://www.s1000rrforum.com/forum/exhaust-fuel-delivery/90202-bmw-bosch-ecu-how-works-what-you-need-know.html

It's a fascinating read by someone who clearly understands the ECU and a great way to spend your day while your family is out doing Black friday.

Thanks for posting. Sounds much more logical and informed than the rampant speculation and ego swordfighting that has been occurring in this thread.
 

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Discussion Starter #62 (Edited)
The comment on the Bren website that the 1600 ECU is organized like the S1000RR sheds some light on the question. In that ECU BMW employs something they call Reduction Pre-Control. It's a control table that limits the amount of throttle applied, regardless of rider demand, based upon the traction that it thinks is available at various lean angles and gear selected. It's designed to smooth the transitions in and out of traction control. For example, it "knows" that in the first few gears, and at high lean angle, that large throttle openings will overwhelm the expected traction of the rear tire - so it won't deliver a full throttle opening in those cases. Otherwise, the actual traction control would be activated much more often and seem more intrusive.

The guys that have this whole system well understood are the racers that have worked with BMW and Bosch to provide their own tailored tuning. The best explanation I've seen on the subject is a fairly long thread on the S1000RR forum and can be found here:

https://www.s1000rrforum.com/forum/exhaust-fuel-delivery/90202-bmw-bosch-ecu-how-works-what-you-need-know.html

It's a fascinating read by someone who clearly understands the ECU and a great way to spend your day while your family is out doing Black friday.

I agree this is a fascinating read. But it doesn't explain why the K1600 has the lag even straight up (no lean angle) on a dry road. I think this is all much simpler than you seem willing to except. BMW did what was necessary to pass regulations in Europe.
 

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Discussion Starter #63
Thanks for posting. Sounds much more logical and informed than the rampant speculation and ego swordfighting that has been occurring in this thread.
It's thanksgiving brother, stop the hatin'. :cheers:
 

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It's thanksgiving brother, stop the hatin'.

No hate. When there are tons of posts with opposing viewpoints and very little data, yet people insisting they are right, what do you call it?

And I wrote too soon. That thread started out well, but then moved away from a data-driven, logical debate. Was hoping to see a logical debate with Bren when someone from Bren stepped in, but it descended into some of the same position-defending garbage I see in this thread. An opportunity for the participants to learn from each other and emerge mutually enriched, was lost.

I would say the feeling is more like disappointment. Opportunity for deeper understanding lost to ego driven posturing and bickering.
 

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Discussion Starter #65 (Edited)
No hate. When there are tons of posts with opposing viewpoints and very little data, yet people insisting they are right, what do you call it?

And I wrote too soon. That thread started out well, but then moved away from a data-driven, logical debate. Was hoping to see a logical debate with Bren when someone from Bren stepped in, but it descended into some of the same position-defending garbage I see in this thread. An opportunity for the participants to learn from each other and emerge mutually enriched, was lost.

I would say the feeling is more like disappointment. Opportunity for deeper understanding lost to ego driven posturing and bickering.

Sometimes you can logically beat the proverbial dead horse until you end up indecisively chasing your tail. If you haven't ever flashed a bike I can see how this will be a big step. For me it's a pretty common thing and I have the harness to hook my Suzuki to a laptop and do my own Stage 1 flash in the garage. I can't make everyone 100% comfortable about a change like this, nor is that my goal. But if you feel like this will solve your issues with the K1600, I can tell you my experience with it. BMW is not ever going to tell us all of the decisions that resulted in the throttle being what it is. So if you are looking for a 100% factual answer, well that's not ever coming. But consider this: BMW left this door open for the throttle to be fixed. You think things through and follow the logic trail as far as you can, then its dice rolling time.


I thought in the Bren Tuning thread you sent your ECU to them already? So rather than taking snipe shots at everyone why don't you just report your findings? I did ask people to post opposing opinions.


I was facing selling the bike at a $12K loss, so a $500 risk on flashing it was a pretty low-stress decision - if it didn't work I lost $12.5K. But if it works (which it appears to have), I save $11.5K.
 

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I think a great way to end the back and forth would be for the people with doubts and questions to call Chris. Chris was nice enough to give me the short version of it and since this is his area of expertise I trust him the same way when someone brings me their guns. As it turned out, everything he said the tune would do IT DID. This is what he does, if you can do better then start your own business. This thread was supposed to be about the results of the people that actually spent the money for the tune and give feedback, not for backyard hacks throwing around opinions which it has turned into.
 

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I have been in the mechanic business for most of my life, I am old, back in the day to change things it required changing hard parts, but now days with all the electronics on vehicles you can make a real difference in performance with the change of a few values in the ECM. No doubt there are many reasons behind not allowing the throttle to go to WOT, it a balance in the overall control the manufacture is looking for, for what ever reason, I have a 18 K16GLT and I will be trying the upgrade early next year. Will report later when it happens. Have a wonderful day.
 

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So from reading these posts I assume the throttle issue is on all 2018 K1600s.:confused: A new owner of 2018 GTL I have never ridden, call me crazy. My first ride will be from Seattle to Anchorage this May, I'm sure by the time I arrive in Anchorage I'll have some idea of what works and what needs work on the bike.
Just sold my 2010 RT, just looking for more comfort on long rides. The deal was hard to pall up, hopping the GTL wont have too many issues.
The former owner bought every factory upgrade known to man, including aftermarket Rejuvenate slip-on's and road pegs.
Would really be a bummer to fly down to Seattle and discover the bike has throttle issues, or something else.:frown:
It's in cold storage at Harley Dealer I purchased from, covered with trickle charger and gas additive.

Going to be a long winter...
 

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Discussion Starter #69
So from reading these posts I assume the throttle issue is on all 2018 K1600s.:confused: A new owner of 2018 GTL I have never ridden, call me crazy. My first ride will be from Seattle to Anchorage this May, I'm sure by the time I arrive in Anchorage I'll have some idea of what works and what needs work on the bike.
Just sold my 2010 RT, just looking for more comfort on long rides. The deal was hard to pall up, hopping the GTL wont have too many issues.
The former owner bought every factory upgrade known to man, including aftermarket Rejuvenate slip-on's and road pegs.
Would really be a bummer to fly down to Seattle and discover the bike has throttle issues, or something else.:frown:
It's in cold storage at Harley Dealer I purchased from, covered with trickle charger and gas additive.

Going to be a long winter...

Not to worry. The throttle issues are rideable. It's not going to stop the trip. When you get her home though, you might want to send that ECU out to get flashed. It seems the GT people have more of a problem than the GTL people. Guess us GT people are still trying to ride too fast!
 

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I like fast
The 18's are plenty fast in my opinion. Same 160hp 6cyl as before, they say you'll experience a little slower response but not overall speed unless your concerned about the speed limiter, 135mph is my understanding on a GLT.

The Brenning flash sounds like a good option if you feel it's something you desire. My concern would be your warranty.

Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk
 

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I just installed mine tonight with a tank full of Sam's Club 93 on Stage II. WOW! This is what the K1600 was meant to be. It was worth every penny.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

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I hate it when during deceleration before a pedestrian crossing the bike produces loud popping sounds and heads.turn. For me it is an annoying, nonsense features that appeal to the proverbial 16 year old in many of us. .Would be nice if it could be defeated.
 

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I don't mind it; in fact, I started doing it myself as I walk into a room or down a hill.
Sh!t doesn't stink as long as you don't poke it...........
 
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