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Still waiting to get a new fork (wheel carrier) from Germany. No time estimate. Currently: total days in shop/total days of ownership: 52/99.
That's not good. I'd loan you mine if you weren't so far away. Did the dealer at least give you a loaner or extend the warranty by 2 months?
 
Discussion starter · #45 · (Edited)
That's not good. I'd loan you mine if you weren't so far away. Did the dealer at least give you a loaner or extend the warranty by 2 months?
Thanks for the loan thought -- wish I could fly up into your neck of the woods for a tour! :D

I'm quite sure that if I had asked for a loaner, something would have been arranged -- my dealer principal and his service manager have been absolutely super through this entire process. BMW should be training their entire dealer body on how to take care of their customers like Jeff and Stuart at Morton's.

In this case, however, for a number of reasons a loaner didn't make sense to do.

As for asking for a couple months' extention of the warranty, as a business matter that doesn't make much sense for either me or BMW. On their side: too hard for BMW and dealers to administer exceptions like that; on my side, it would not be something of any particular value to me.

The process continues (day 53/100 (53 days in shop, of 100 days since delivery). But believe it or not, I'm not yet at the "time to start screaming" point. Am I happy about missing virtually the entire summer riding season? Of course not. But at least at this stage, I see no reason for this to turn ugly. I firmly believe this is the sort of thing that should be resolved rationally and reasonably, and based on my experience -- I have been riding *exclusively* BMWs for about 30 years (with the exception of a single 1980 Honda CB750F in 2010 for my son to use as a training bike, and even he's now on a BMW airhead :D) -- I have every expectation it will be.

Mark
 
I have found an easier approach to the left pull issue.

I stumbled upon this solution while on the bike during a rather mentally unstimulating commute. As far as the physics goes, I was thinking about how mneblett's solution is quite simple, but takes some work to implement. To counteract the left pull, one simply needs to modify the dynamics of the bike to produce an equal force in the opposite direction, but I was not convinced that the optimized solution had been discovered yet.

As I work with aircraft and am familiar with aerodynamics, it dawned on me that a control surface of some sort on the left side of the bike would be perfectly suited to inducting a counteracting rotation of the bike towards the right, thus providing an opposite force that can be controlled in magnitude.

To test my hypothesis, I put the bike on cruise control, opened my gloved hand wide open and stuck out my left arm into the laminar flow. Lo and behold, the force of the air flow against my left arm induced a rotational force to my upper body, and hence the motorcycle, by maintaining a rigid riding position in order to transfer the rotational moment. In effect, the air flowing past provided me the perfect medium to push against with my left hand to force the bike to the right! With this solution, I was able to control the adjustment force appropriately and the bike was able to track straight.

The only cost of this solution would be your dignity, but I would postulate that K1600 owners already have plenty to spare, simply by virtue of owning the bike.
 
Discussion starter · #47 ·
To test my hypothesis, I put the bike on cruise control, opened my gloved hand wide open and stuck out my left arm into the laminar flow. Lo and behold, the force of the air flow against my left arm induced a rotational force to my upper body, and hence the motorcycle, by maintaining a rigid riding position in order to transfer the rotational moment. In effect, the air flowing past provided me the perfect medium to push against with my left hand to force the bike to the right! With this solution, I was able to control the adjustment force appropriately and the bike was able to track straight.
I've steering bikes this way before when bored droning across Kansas (physics background, too :D).

The problem here is --



I don't have enough left arms to offset my bike's pull. :D
 
I have found an easier approach to the left pull issue.

I stumbled upon this solution while on the bike during a rather mentally unstimulating commute. As far as the physics goes, I was thinking about how mneblett's solution is quite simple, but takes some work to implement. To counteract the left pull, one simply needs to modify the dynamics of the bike to produce an equal force in the opposite direction, but I was not convinced that the optimized solution had been discovered yet.

As I work with aircraft and am familiar with aerodynamics, it dawned on me that a control surface of some sort on the left side of the bike would be perfectly suited to inducting a counteracting rotation of the bike towards the right, thus providing an opposite force that can be controlled in magnitude.

To test my hypothesis, I put the bike on cruise control, opened my gloved hand wide open and stuck out my left arm into the laminar flow. Lo and behold, the force of the air flow against my left arm induced a rotational force to my upper body, and hence the motorcycle, by maintaining a rigid riding position in order to transfer the rotational moment. In effect, the air flowing past provided me the perfect medium to push against with my left hand to force the bike to the right! With this solution, I was able to control the adjustment force appropriately and the bike was able to track straight.

The only cost of this solution would be your dignity, but I would postulate that K1600 owners already have plenty to spare, simply by virtue of owning the bike.
Did you ever work for LearJet? Your solution sounds like one of their ideas. Ever wonder why they have those ugly tail fins?

Now that you mention it, a large enough fin on the left would provide the necessary counter rotation, while providing a cooling blast on the left foot. Two problems solved in one master stroke!!
 
Discussion starter · #49 ·
Now that you mention it, a large enough fin on the left would provide the necessary counter rotation, while providing a cooling blast on the left foot. Two problems solved in one master stroke!!
Nothing an engineer appreciates more than the beauty of an elegantly simple solution (well, ok, a great rack with just the right oscillation rate is right up there, too ... :D).

Even better when a single solution solves multiple problems -- bravo!
 
Nothing an engineer appreciates more than the beauty of an elegantly simple solution (well, ok, a great rack with just the right oscillation rate is right up there, too ... :D).
The problem with figuring out the oscillation rate of said rack is accounting for the non-Newtonian motion as the Base Oscillation-rate Of Bust (BOOB for short) increases. That's why it's better to directly observe the motion closely, rather than rely on a mathematical solution.
 
I've steering bikes this way before when bored droning across Kansas (physics background, too :D).
The problem here is --
I don't have enough left arms to offset my bike's pull. :D
To anyone who doesn't believe I actually did this on the road and it worked...give it a try!!! When no one is looking of course. And not everyone at once, mind you. People are going to start thinking that K16 riders are not quite right upstairs.
 
Discussion starter · #54 ·
What was the outcome of replacing the ball joint and whatever else needed to be done. If you've already posted this, sorry I missed it.
I'm almost ready to post on this -- received the bike back on Sat., September 10 (dropped off on July 30 -- with the previous time the bike has been in, that makes more than 9 of the 16 weeks since delivery in the shop).

Both front Duolever ball joints (upper and lower), and the entire wheel carrier (forks) were replaced. This appears to have eliminated the worst of the "squirreliness" from the apparently out-of-the-box defective upper ball joint.

I'm on my second day of riding to/from the office, trying to decide whether the remaining twitchiness is just a my own hyper-sensitivity to *any* odd feeling, or there's still an issue, albeit at a considerably lower intensity/frequency. I'll probably have a final report, and a pic or two, by the end of this weekend.
 
For what it's worth, I did the string test today after mounting new tires and found my front wheel 1/2 inch offset to the left. The front suspension and the way the wheel mounts is very interesting to me.

Image


The axle has the ability to "float" side to side in the fork limited only by a shoulder on the left threaded bushing. It looks to me like a shim could be placed between the wheel and the left fork leg to move the wheel to the right. I'm not suggesting a half inch shim but what am I missing here?

Also, the manual specifies tightening the "quick-release axle in threaded bush" to 50 Nm. Are they really saying that is how much side pressure they want on the wheel bearings? The wheel would be seized and when I initially loosened it there it was hand tight with no where near that much torque applied.
 
Discussion starter · #56 ·
The axle has the ability to "float" side to side in the fork limited only by a shoulder on the left threaded bushing. It looks to me like a shim could be placed between the wheel and the left fork leg to move the wheel to the right. I'm not suggesting a half inch shim but what am I missing here?
You're missing your brakes -- mis-alignment of the rotor to the calipers (these are not sliding calipers). That is why I shimmed the upper A-arm left pivot to move the wheel to the right, instead of playing with wheel position relative to the wheel carrier ("fork").

Also, the manual specifies tightening the "quick-release axle in threaded bush" to 50 Nm. Are they really saying that is how much side pressure they want on the wheel bearings? The wheel would be seized and when I initially loosened it there it was hand tight with no where near that much torque applied.
No, it won't be "seized" -- and yes, that is the correct torque. Take a closer look at the arrangements and you'll find the axle does not carry the 50 Nm load against the wheel bearings (i.e., the axle is not compressing the wheel bearing stack; the 50 Nm is borne on a separate shoulder).
 
GTl Left Pull

Hello Mark,
My GTL has this left pull issue from day one. I've never owned a bike with such an "out of balence" feel to it before. I also notice when coming to a stop, the bikes front end feel loose. I don't know if that makes any sense, but there is deifinately something wrong with the front end on those 2 items.
I've put about 550 miles on the machine thus far. I'm making a list of items to be addressed by the Orlando dealer, otherwise I'll be asking for a different bike.
Your write write up is a wonderful piece of work, and your calmness about it is highly respected. I don't think I would feel very well after enduring what you have gone through.
Thank you kindly for your work.
 
Left pull

This is probably an old issue but I just bought a 2013 1600GT and it pulls to the left. I have to put some right pressure on the handle bar to counter steer the left pull. I didn't think much of it till around 1900 miles I noticed my front tire right side was worn to the tread wear indicators. The left side was in great shape and so was the rear. Anybody has similar experience or any resolution to the problem? Ive got about 200k on BMW motorcycles and never had this happen. Thanks. Jerry.
 
left pull and abnormal front tire wear

I Have A Heavy Pull To The Left And Front Tire Worn 3MM More On Right Side Than Left, Also Steering Is Vague. With Only 2700 Miles On my K1600Gt, The Dealer Cant Explain This Concern. BMW MOTORAD ConsiderS
These Attributes To Be Normal For My Bike Even Though Dealer Agrees With Than There Is A Handling Problem. I Recommend Submiting A Complaint To The National Highway Safety Administration As I Have, The Phone Number Is On Their Web Sight. Possibility Of A Recall May Result If We Are Proactive. The Next Step Is To Contact The Attorney general's OffIce And Submiting A Claim Under The Consumer Product Protection Act.
 
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