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Yeah and the most riders on the road are over 50 so it stands to reason, the highest number of riders represents the most accidents.

It's like saying Toyota has the most cars on the road, and then saying most accidents involve a Toyota. Of course they do!

Look at the chart the riders over 50 today where in their 20-30s in 1990 and also represented the most accidents.

Ah statistics so easy to spin a story the way the analyizer wants.

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And they are also the ones most likely to drink and ride.

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Meaningless without accident rate


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Q
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We've had two motorcycle/car accidents in the last week here in town. I don't live in a particular large city so it's news here.

One was a Harley or a cruiser of some sort. From the very limited details on the news and by looking at the photos it appears as if the car turned left in front of the bike. It looked like front end damage on the car, guy wasn't wearing a helmet and died at the scene. The one two days ago a sport bike ran into the drivers side back tire area of the little Ford Escape. The bike was on a road with the right of way and it appears that the Escape pulled out in front of it. This rider was wearing a helmet and later died at the hospital. I don't and won't know anymore details than that as our local news stations don't follow up on stories at all.

I know all the lame excuses of "well I didn't see him" or the other clinical excuse of "drivers just aren't used to looking for bikes so" Personally it doesn't wash with me. Bike are on the road 8 months out of the year here and in fairly large numbers. They all run a headlight at the very least. We spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars installing additional safety features like horns, lights, reflective tape and flashing brake lights our bikes and nothing seems to help. When are people going to man up and simply admit to not paying attention to the task at hand... which is driving.

I wonder how driving would change if people's freedoms and livelihoods were at risk with an at fault accident on their hands. Currently the only issues the two above mentioned drivers have right now are replacing their car and getting dropped by their insurance carrier... if they even had insurance to start with.. meanwhile two other families are missing a loved one.

Kinda pisses me off to be honest.
 

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Techmeister
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Discussion Starter #9
I looked at the data again, closely this time. It does make sense; highest casualties are in the groups most likely to ride; those which don't yet have kids and those whose kids are grown. It also shows the rates are close year over year, even though the population has increase in numbers.

I am an aggressive rider among cars; I purposefully attract attention to my presence. I don't use my horn much (unless I am in a driver's blind spot where it makes sense), favoring instead the throttle and my lights. I do split lanes, but only under certain stalled traffic conditions. I am very kind to entering and crossing traffic. I zig-zag a little when traffic is slowing in front of me to attract attention.

I commute some 80 miles into Boston often. More than 2 cars out of 5 have drivers looking at their phones in the morning traffic routinely. I have two cell phones mounted in my line of sight, but I am never distracted by them. The cell phones are used as my GPS and actuators.
 

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We've had two motorcycle/car accidents in the last week here in town. I don't live in a particular large city so it's news here.

One was a Harley or a cruiser of some sort. From the very limited details on the news and by looking at the photos it appears as if the car turned left in front of the bike. It looked like front end damage on the car, guy wasn't wearing a helmet and died at the scene. The one two days ago a sport bike ran into the drivers side back tire area of the little Ford Escape. The bike was on a road with the right of way and it appears that the Escape pulled out in front of it. This rider was wearing a helmet and later died at the hospital. I don't and won't know anymore details than that as our local news stations don't follow up on stories at all.

I know all the lame excuses of "well I didn't see him" or the other clinical excuse of "drivers just aren't used to looking for bikes so" Personally it doesn't wash with me. Bike are on the road 8 months out of the year here and in fairly large numbers. They all run a headlight at the very least. We spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars installing additional safety features like horns, lights, reflective tape and flashing brake lights our bikes and nothing seems to help. When are people going to man up and simply admit to not paying attention to the task at hand... which is driving.

I wonder how driving would change if people's freedoms and livelihoods were at risk with an at fault accident on their hands. Currently the only issues the two above mentioned drivers have right now are replacing their car and getting dropped by their insurance carrier... if they even had insurance to start with.. meanwhile two other families are missing a loved one.

Kinda pisses me off to be honest.

Rather hard on the cage drivers aren't you when you don't really know all the details of each crash? Yes one of the most common excuses for a cage driver to say is that he/she didn't see the motorcycle they pulled out in front of, but in many instances that's true. Bikes have a small profile compared to almost anything else out on the road and it's real easy not to see them especially in busy areas. A motorcycle can literally disappear behind an A-pillar because the pillars are so wide today. And yes SOME bikers doll up their bikes to be seen more readily which is great, but it still doesn't completely protect them from harm. Now compound that problem if the bike is a small sport type bike with a lesser profile or if the rider is exceeding the speed limit. Ever have a bike approach you at a higher speed than you thought he was going, or a car for that matter?


Also compound the problem with all sorts of gadgets in cars AND on bikes today that somehow take all our attention away from our primary job of operating our motor vehicle. The screens get bigger every year on the in dash navigation units and the touch screens drag our eyes off the road and it's NOT just cage drivers at fault here, motorcyclists are just as negligent in many instances. And lets not forget drivers that text while operating their cars. In many instances its the high tech stuff some rave about that causes the most problems.


So what can help us survive out there on a motorcycle?? How about some good old fashioned common sense, use your God given gift of judgement, cover your controls when in traffic and mandatory helmet laws? It is completely insane that all states don't require helmets to be worn by motorcycle riders and passengers. A biker says a lot about themselves when they ride a bike without a helmet on. It tells me they don't give a dam* about their own safety nor do they give two shi** about their loved ones. All the crap about "I just wanna be free and be in the wind" anti-helmet stuff is BS.


And if you think the drivers of the cages in the two crashes you referred to are out of the woods because they survived you are sadly mistaken. They are in for a long legal and civil court procedure that will seem endless. If in fact they did wrong they will pay a big price that will have lasting effects on them and their families. If the drivers really didn't see the motorcyclist many times they end up committing suicide later on because they can't live with themselves and these suicides are never in the press because it isn't really news. Regardless what you may think, no one ever wins in these situations except people that have no conscious. It would be wise to wait until the crash investigation is complete to render judgement as to who is really at fault.


Rick H.
 

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Preema
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This is like the stats that say golf is the most dangerous sport with more fatalities than any other. They overlooked the number of old people that play golf and have counted the numbers heart attacks or strokes on the course in their figures.


I guess a similar reasoning goes into the motorbike fatalities, once over 50 you break easier and serious injuries have a greater impact. There are also a disproportionate number of older gentlemen who take up riding after many decades off a bike, buy a big powerful toy and lose control. (One of ours did that a few years ago, didn't even make it home from the dealer.)


Then there's the risk takers putting their hands in the 100yr old agricultural technology of today's Harley Davidsons again over represented by the 50+ guys...
 

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Never mind the fact that a disproportionate number of the fatalities involved alcohol over the legal limit. Riding drunk is just asking for it to be your final ride.
 

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Q
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Rather hard on the cage drivers aren't you when you don't really know all the details of each crash? Yes one of the most common excuses for a cage driver to say is that he/she didn't see the motorcycle they pulled out in front of, but in many instances that's true. Bikes have a small profile compared to almost anything else out on the road and it's real easy not to see them especially in busy areas. A motorcycle can literally disappear behind an A-pillar because the pillars are so wide today. And yes SOME bikers doll up their bikes to be seen more readily which is great, but it still doesn't completely protect them from harm. Now compound that problem if the bike is a small sport type bike with a lesser profile or if the rider is exceeding the speed limit. Ever have a bike approach you at a higher speed than you thought he was going, or a car for that matter?


Also compound the problem with all sorts of gadgets in cars AND on bikes today that somehow take all our attention away from our primary job of operating our motor vehicle. The screens get bigger every year on the in dash navigation units and the touch screens drag our eyes off the road and it's NOT just cage drivers at fault here, motorcyclists are just as negligent in many instances. And lets not forget drivers that text while operating their cars. In many instances its the high tech stuff some rave about that causes the most problems.


So what can help us survive out there on a motorcycle?? How about some good old fashioned common sense, use your God given gift of judgement, cover your controls when in traffic and mandatory helmet laws? It is completely insane that all states don't require helmets to be worn by motorcycle riders and passengers. A biker says a lot about themselves when they ride a bike without a helmet on. It tells me they don't give a dam* about their own safety nor do they give two shi** about their loved ones. All the crap about "I just wanna be free and be in the wind" anti-helmet stuff is BS.


And if you think the drivers of the cages in the two crashes you referred to are out of the woods because they survived you are sadly mistaken. They are in for a long legal and civil court procedure that will seem endless. If in fact they did wrong they will pay a big price that will have lasting effects on them and their families. If the drivers really didn't see the motorcyclist many times they end up committing suicide later on because they can't live with themselves and these suicides are never in the press because it isn't really news. Regardless what you may think, no one ever wins in these situations except people that have no conscious. It would be wise to wait until the crash investigation is complete to render judgement as to who is really at fault.


Rick H.
That's what I like about you Rick. When ever the opportunity presents itself.. your right there to take a shot.
 

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Rather hard on the cage drivers aren't you when you don't really know all the details of each crash? Yes one of the most common excuses for a cage driver to say is that he/she didn't see the motorcycle they pulled out in front of, but in many instances that's true. Bikes have a small profile compared to almost anything else out on the road and it's real easy not to see them especially in busy areas. A motorcycle can literally disappear behind an A-pillar because the pillars are so wide today. And yes SOME bikers doll up their bikes to be seen more readily which is great, but it still doesn't completely protect them from harm. Now compound that problem if the bike is a small sport type bike with a lesser profile or if the rider is exceeding the speed limit. Ever have a bike approach you at a higher speed than you thought he was going, or a car for that matter?


Also compound the problem with all sorts of gadgets in cars AND on bikes today that somehow take all our attention away from our primary job of operating our motor vehicle. The screens get bigger every year on the in dash navigation units and the touch screens drag our eyes off the road and it's NOT just cage drivers at fault here, motorcyclists are just as negligent in many instances. And lets not forget drivers that text while operating their cars. In many instances its the high tech stuff some rave about that causes the most problems.


So what can help us survive out there on a motorcycle?? How about some good old fashioned common sense, use your God given gift of judgement, cover your controls when in traffic and mandatory helmet laws? It is completely insane that all states don't require helmets to be worn by motorcycle riders and passengers. A biker says a lot about themselves when they ride a bike without a helmet on. It tells me they don't give a dam* about their own safety nor do they give two shi** about their loved ones. All the crap about "I just wanna be free and be in the wind" anti-helmet stuff is BS.


And if you think the drivers of the cages in the two crashes you referred to are out of the woods because they survived you are sadly mistaken. They are in for a long legal and civil court procedure that will seem endless. If in fact they did wrong they will pay a big price that will have lasting effects on them and their families. If the drivers really didn't see the motorcyclist many times they end up committing suicide later on because they can't live with themselves and these suicides are never in the press because it isn't really news. Regardless what you may think, no one ever wins in these situations except people that have no conscious. It would be wise to wait until the crash investigation is complete to render judgement as to who is really at fault.


Rick H.
Its very true that motorcycle have the smallest margin of error, one mistake can be devastating, while in a collision with the automobile, the car basically gets a fender bender and the motorcyclists has lost . I like the choice of wearing a helmet, although I personally wear helmets about 80% of the time.
 

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Someone took a hard left right in front of me recently and I was in a big SUV lit up like a Christmas tree, not the bike. on the bike, I would have hit him head-on, no doubt.

My living was in the collision business and I have seen it all. People are simply careless, in a hurry or easily distracted. Collision business is a billion dollar industry growing yearly in big cities.
 

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I think as a biker you have to basically assume everyone is trying to kill you (intent not needed), the traffic laws won’t be obeyed by them and you should bend them where necessary for safety (evade bumper to bumper, lane spilt b/c some guy will drive into your rear) and the performance of the bike/trainingskill of the rider is your most important safety tool. The main danger that scares me is someone totally running a red, which would be hard to evade even with care.
 

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Then there's the risk takers putting their hands in the 100yr old agricultural technology of today's Harley Davidsons again over represented by the 50+ guys...
Today's Harley Davidson's are anything but 100 year old technology. There have been significant improvements in braking, frame rigidity, suspension, and engine management starting with the MY 2010 bikes. My 2014 Road King had cartridge forks, brembo brakes with an effective ABS system, and handled well albeit with limited ground clearance. The 2017s are even better I recently road a friends 2018 Ultra and was surprised by the improvements.

I no longer own a HD and doubt I would buy another one but they are capable motorcycles and certainly not unsafe (unless you have a pre-MY2010 touring model they feel like they have an hinge in the middle of the frame!). They are not comparable to our K bikes but that just means they are different not necessarily bad.

Mike
 

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I liked my Harleys...a lot. I think the V-Twin is archaic, but ya know that when you go into it. After my LT experience I was going to swear off on BMWs and score an Ultra, but glad I didn't since the K1600 is superior...although the pi$$poor sound system needs work! But we're really getting off track from what the OP put forth. Sorry.
 
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