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I contacted a local shop, I emailed the documentation to the owner. He contacted Michelin, they told him to order a PR4GT from his distributor, replace my PR5GT with the PR4GT and mail the PR5GT back to them. Michelin said they would examine the tire, then reimburse the shop after inspection. I would be on the hook for the mount and balance ($20) and shipping cost of the PR5GT back to Michelin. The shop owner did not bother with returning the tire. It looked good to him, so one of his techs bought the tire (apparently it fits the Aprillia RSV4) from the shop owner, which meant I would not have to reimburse the shop for the shipping cost. The owner told me that Michelin claimed that the PR5GT was "in spec" of what BMW specifies. Sounds like a case of pointing fingers. Any way I have a new rear tire for my upcoming 4,000 mile trip up north. When I took the tire off to inspect the swing arm / remove the PR5GT I did see evidence of rubbing. I'm starting to wonder if it may have been there prior to the PR5GT install, because I never really paid much attention to the swing arm -I just take the tire off, replace rear end fluid and put the tire on. It never occurred to me to inspect the swing arm (lesson learned). One last thing, the shop owner did not seem to worried about the rubbing, he showed me the race bike in the shop - rear tire rubs the chain, said it was a common thing. My bike is 2014 GTLE. I believe the tire was made in Spain, but I don't recall the DOM. Tire had 2,000 miles on it.
 

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I realize this is a long thread. I had stated it was on my 2014 GTL-Exclusive.
Thank’s !!


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
 
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So what is the general consensus on the Road 5GT now?

Have Michelin actually withdrawn this tyre from the K16 as I can't see it as a recommended option on their website (UK) anymore?
 

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Have Michelin actually withdrawn this tyre from the K16
Michelin have deleted the Road 5GT as a recommended fitment for the K1600, as some bikes (not all) have insufficient clearance to run the tyre even though it conforms to accepted standards.

None of us have managed to work out any pattern regarding build year or variant as to which bikes the tyre will fit and which it won’t which suggests that BMW’s QC in the respect of final drive dimensions is, and always has been, somewhat lacking.

If you have a bike that has sufficient clearance to run a Road 5GT on the rear, they are great - excellent feel, great wet weather grip and good life.
 

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It is a shame !!!! I really like the tires. I have 3000 on them and you barely see any wear marks by now. Wonderful on corners. I have no issues with them on the GA. Happy and safe 5GT ride......!!!!
 

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View attachment 141434 This is the rear of my Road 5 GT. (190/55 17) on my '18 GTL. The tire has about 5,000 miles and I'm just noticing that it rubs the drive shaft casing. That clean flat black strip was raised when it was new. Anyone else have this going on?
I have bought set of this tyres as my road 4 got punctures and I never fix while have punctured tyres on bikes but replace and have exact same issue like you. I will not notice it until I have pull my bike from garage and feel wee bit of resistance so I have look at the back wheel and here we have side wall of tyre have melted rubber. Hope Micheline will send me now new set of 4s as this is not acceptable.
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Since I love 'em, I'm glad I got one of the swingarms with plenty of clearance. If this one is on BMW, as @st13phil's pretty confident it is, then I'm glad I'll be able to run it.

But one admittedly dumb question to Phil and others with a manufacturing/engineering background: Just like the tires come out of a mold, the swingarm/driveshaft housing also comes out of a mold. One (as in me) would think that rubber coming out of a mold would be more likely to vary by several mm than metal, but as my wife will confirm for anyone who asks, I'm frequently wrong. 🥳

Sloppy QC by BMW suppliers (and thus the Mother Ship, since the buck stops with them) or not, how does that much variance happen with the same metal poured into the same molds? Maybe the molds themselves have too much variance to begin with? If so, that's one's really some half-arsed, shoddy garbage ("Meh, no need to measure. They all look the same to me."), and it means the person at BMW responsible for checking on the parts at delivery was asleep at the wheel. Surely they didn't notice there was that big a variance upon delivery, and just decide to run them anyway.

I'm only speculating, but I'm sure betting that behind closed doors, BMW worked a deal where they paid off Michelin handsomely to fall on their swords, and also for the money they'll lose due to BMW's non-conforming bikes not being able to run a tire they designed for it. IF this is the fault of a BMW supplier and thus the dimensions of the bikes, BMW and Michelin had to know it fairly quickly, and we've still yet to hear a peep from BMW. Again, if so, interesting business decision, since both are premium products, but I agree with BMW here. You're known as being persnickety, meticulous, and perfectionist with your engineering and fit and finish, and this would not be a good look for them.
 
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Since I love 'em, I'm glad I got one of the swingarms with plenty of clearance. If this one is on BMW, as @st13phil's pretty confident it is, then I'm glad I'll be able to run it.

But one admittedly dumb question to Phil and others with a manufacturing/engineering background: Just like the tires come out of a mold, the swingarm/driveshaft housing also comes out of a mold. One (as in me) would think that rubber coming out of a mold would be more likely to vary by several mm than metal, but as my wife will confirm for anyone who asks, I'm frequently wrong. 🥳

Sloppy QC by BMW suppliers (and thus the Mother Ship, since the buck stops with them) or not, how does that much variance happen with the same metal poured into the same molds? Maybe the molds themselves have too much variance to begin with? If so, that's one's really some half-arsed, shoddy garbage ("Meh, no need to measure. They all look the same to me."), and it means the person at BMW responsible for checking on the parts at delivery was asleep at the wheel. Surely they didn't notice there was that big a variance upon delivery, and just decide to run them anyway.

I'm only speculating, but I'm sure betting that behind closed doors, BMW worked a deal where they paid off Michelin handsomely to fall on their swords, and also for the money they'll lose due to BMW's non-conforming bikes not being able to run a tire they designed for it. IF this is the fault of a BMW supplier and thus the dimensions of the bikes, BMW and Michelin had to know it fairly quickly, and we've still yet to hear a peep from BMW. Again, if so, interesting business decision, since both are premium products, but I agree with BMW here. You're known as being persnickety, meticulous, and perfectionist with your engineering and fit and finish, and this would not be a good look for them.
I have run previous model of this tyre Michelin pilot 4 GT and no rubbing so it isn’t swing arm/shaft casing issue but purely Michelin manufacture issue with tolerance.
I have measure new pilot 4 GT and my 5 GT in bmw dealer on K1600 and found that 5 has bigger wide size for the extra few millimeters which cause rubbing
 

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so it isn’t swing arm/shaft casing issue but purely Michelin manufacture issue with tolerance.
I suggest you read through my earlier posts in this thread. The Road 5GT conforms to ETRTO standards. The issue is with manufacturing tolerances on the bike, not the tyre.
 

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I got what you have said but if all my previous tyres I have used on that bike was pilot 4 GT in the same size as road 5 GT and no rubbing to shaft was occurred until I have put road 5 GT it must be issue on Michelin side
 

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If people like the tire but it doesn't fit why not just get one size narrower? 180/55-17 instead of a 190/55-17
 
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I got what you have said but if all my previous tyres I have used on that bike was pilot 4 GT in the same size as road 5 GT and no rubbing to shaft was occurred until I have put road 5 GT it must be issue on Michelin side
This thread is so long, I get why you wouldn't have read it all, but Michelin have themselves confirmed that their same size PR4GT tire is indeed narrower. That's why if their 5GT won't fit, they've offered a 4 as a replacement.
 
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BMW (and Michelin, for that matter) disagree with you.
OK, Phil, maybe I've missed it somewhere in here, but has BMW now publicly acknowledged the swingarm housing variance?
 
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OK, Phil, maybe I've missed it somewhere in here, but has BMW now publicly acknowledged the swingarm housing variance?
I'm not aware of a public statement, but resulting from my enquiry of them regarding what BMW consider the minimum acceptable clearance to be I have an email from BMW Motorrad customer service that confirms Michelin manufactured the Road 5GT “within all specifications, but because of the tolerances of all the parts on our BMW K1600 this distance [tyre to swinging arm] can be very low”.
 

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how does that much variance happen with the same metal poured into the same molds? Maybe the molds themselves have too much variance to begin with?
Depending upon the casting method employed, the precision of the casting can vary from very high (pressure die casting, or investment casting) through to pretty low (sand casting). Remember that precision costs money, so the cost of the casting varies in the same direction, and the highest precision methods will only be used where they bring benefit. Due to its application, I would expect the swinging arm casting to be relatively low precision.

As part of the finish machining process, the casting will be set in a holding fixture so that all the surfaces to be machined (in the case of our swinging arm that means the pivot points, the suspension pick up points and the flange to which the final drive mounts) will “clean up” - in other words, enough of the cast material can be removed to result in a dimensionally correct machined surface, with the relationship between all of the machined features also being correct.

For a component like the swinging arm, most of the unmachined outer surfaces can vary dimensionally quite significantly with no ill effect, so the final finished dimensions of the critical machined features can be achieved with the raw casting being set in the holding fixture relatively imprecisely. The exception to this - which seems to have been overlooked - is the inner unmachined side of the swinging arm casting that is closest to the tyre.

HTH?
 

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So some bikes can have wider tyres fitted than others, and some bikes pull left while some don't. I wonder if there is a relationship here due to the imprecise nature of the raw casting, or is this post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.

Joe
 

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If it's not a Michelin problem than explain why we have so many variances in tire size measurements on this thread alone?
Some guys have a 190mm tire where some have up to 203mm. Quality seems a bit off to me
 

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Some guys have a 190mm tire where some have up to 203mm.
There are no Road 5GT's in 190/55 ZR 17 size that measure 190mm across the shoulders when mounted on the 6" rim on the rear of a K1600. The homologation maximum width in service for that tyre on that rim width is 201.9mm (I have that from a Michelin source).
 

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So some bikes can have wider tyres fitted than others, and some bikes pull left while some don't. I wonder if there is a relationship here due to the imprecise nature of the raw casting
I did muse on that somewhere earlier in the thread, but that would require that the wheel centre line to frame centre line alignment was variable - as a result of the tolerance variations - and while it's possible, I have no evidence of that being the case.

I can imagine a number of tolerance scenarios that could lead to lack of clearance between the tyre and the swinging arm, some of which would also give rise to the wheel centre line being offset, but if that were the case it really would be an example of some pretty dodgy engineering.
 
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