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SM10
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Packtalk Bold X2


I have gone through a lot of experimenting on this as I have had the same issues as others riding 2 up.
At one point I was almost able to solve drop outs by using 2 SM10's under the seat, one for each of us, but still had occasional drop outs and that's not good enough for me.

It just seems harder for the unit to connect 2 riders than just one. I think location is key.

I currently have a single SM10 placed on the fwd left side of the trunk and connection is 100% stable for both of us.


Funny thing with the pack talk, if either of us are connected to our phone and the SM10, we cannot change mode from Bluetooth to DMC or vise versa. You need to break one of those connections before it will allow you to change modes. Also tried it with my brothers unit and had the same results.


I love the Pack talk Bold and now that I have a stable connection I can forget about it but it is super frustrating how these manufacturers take a standard (like Bluetooth) and make it so it won't play together with other brands. I have a Bluetooth LED worklight/speaker. I can easily connect with that right away and the connection lasts all over the house. My SM10 Pack Talk connection is only good for about 10 ft. And when I was trying to get help from either Sena or Cardo, they both told me their products are not designed to work with each other (and yet it is supposed to be a "standard").
 

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I love the Pack talk Bold and now that I have a stable connection I can forget about it but it is super frustrating how these manufacturers take a standard (like Bluetooth) and make it so it won't play together with other brands. I have a Bluetooth LED worklight/speaker. I can easily connect with that right away and the connection lasts all over the house. My SM10 Pack Talk connection is only good for about 10 ft. And when I was trying to get help from either Sena or Cardo, they both told me their products are not designed to work with each other (and yet it is supposed to be a "standard").
A lot of people confuse what Bluetooth really is. Bluetooth is merely a connection method. Mice use Bluetooth, fitness devices use Bluetooth. I have a meat thermometer that uses Bluetooth. Just because you can use Bluetooth to connect devices together doesn't mean it will be of any use any more than connecting some earbuds with a wire to a defibrillator. The devices being connected still have to be designed to work together.

Bluetooth does have library of functions companies can choose to use to make common connections easier but nothing requires that they ensure compatibility with all other possible devices.
 

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Hello st13phil,


In your original post you said that you were working with Sena Support on this. Have you had any feedback from them? Is there any hope ? :)


Gordon
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Thank you to all who have contributed to this thread. Your inputs have added support to my view that using the SM10 to stream to two headsets simultaneously has some serious limitations. I did have suspicions that the performance issue was with the SRL's, but as the issues exist with other headsets it appears that those are not to blame. Well, at least not totally to blame.
In your original post you said that you were working with Sena Support on this. Have you had any feedback from them? Is there any hope ? :)
I have been working with Sena Europe Support on this issue.

After carrying out numerous resets / re-pairings / configuration changes and other tests at their request, they suggested I sent all my devices to them for testing. Initially they said it all worked fine, but when questioned they confirmed that the tests they'd carried out were in their office. The support agent I was dealing with was excellent, and after I suggested that he repeat the tests out in the open in free air (like we are when we're riding ;) ) he agreed with me that the effective range over which the SM10 will stream reliably collapses dramatically when a second headset is connected, from 75ft or more with only one headset to 10ft or less with two. Great, I thought, as he advised me that he needed to take it up with the Sena team in the USA.

And that's where it all stopped. Within a week, I was basically advised that "that's the way it is" and that "Sena advise that the SM10 is mounted in close proximity to the headsets with clear line of sight to them both", and we're sending you back your equipment :mad:

My Sena Europe contact was good enough to test some other SM10's from their stock and has replaced the one I returned with another that he says gave better range, but I suspect he is toeing the corporate line while knowing the same as me: that the SM10's performance is marginal when connected to two headsets - and that's being kind about its performance.

So, in summary, if you want to use a Sena SM10 for streaming to a single headset it's fine; if you want to use it to stream to two headsets then be prepared to mount it in the open close to, and with direct line of sight to, both headsets unless you get lucky with another location on the bike.
 

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This confirms what I have thought for some time about the SM-10. Mine works great with 1 headset also, and gets real flakey when 2 headsets are connected. The firmware hasn't had a update since the beginning of time on the SM-10. I would think they could make some improvements with a upgrade of the firmware. The SM-10 uses 2.1 Bluetooth while everything else has moved on to 4.* versions.

I've looked at using the new Freewire from Sena, but these are designed to be plug and play on either Harleys or GW's. I haven't been able to find information on creating a conversion cable yet. The down side is that they are crazy expensive, and only connect to one helmet. Guess Sena learned that lesson with the SM-10.

Thanks for the follow up.

Sent using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #26
The SM-10 uses 2.1 Bluetooth while everything else has moved on to 4.* versions.
The support agent I was working with told me that the SM10 uses a single Bluetooth transmitter, so I suspect that the root of the problem is that rather than the specific Bluetooth version - but I could be totally wrong!
 

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Not sure what all y'all are doing wrong but we have been running the same SM-10 conneted to two SMH-10 headsets for just shy of 6 years now and have had ZERO issues with it whatsoever. The only thiing that happens is when we get too far away (~75 feet or so) the connection drops. It never was designed for such distances so that is not a problem. Simply hit the big button in the mddile of the SM-10 when we get back to it and it reconnects immediately.
 

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Not sure what all y'all are doing wrong but we have been running the same SM-10 conneted to two SMH-10 headsets for just shy of 6 years now and have had ZERO issues with it whatsoever. The only thiing that happens is when we get too far away (~75 feet or so) the connection drops. It never was designed for such distances so that is not a problem. Simply hit the big button in the mddile of the SM-10 when we get back to it and it reconnects immediately.
Who knows? But the issues are easily reproducible on multiple units. Maybe they changed something in the design along the way that broke the dual channel use. From the above, it sounds like they're acknowledging the issue but have no interest in addressing it.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Not sure what all y'all are doing wrong but we have been running the same SM-10 conneted to two SMH-10 headsets for just shy of 6 years now and have had ZERO issues with it whatsoever. The only thiing that happens is when we get too far away (~75 feet or so) the connection drops. It never was designed for such distances so that is not a problem. Simply hit the big button in the mddile of the SM-10 when we get back to it and it reconnects immediately.
Well, that’s potentially added something else to the pot - a headset type with which it appears to work better.

Where on the bike is your SM10 mounted, please?
 

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I am currently working with Sena Support on an issue and am seeking information from other SM10 users.

I know a number of people have added a Sena SM10 to their K1600 to stream the bike’s audio, but it would seem that many ride solo and my question relates specifically, and only, to those who ride with a pillion and are streaming music to both rider and passenger headsets simultaneously from the SM10.

If you are doing this, could you please share the make / model of headset(s) you are using, precisely where you have the SM10 mounted on the bike, and whether or not the music streaming is 100% reliable.

TIA!
I'm using an old pair of SMH10s paired to the SM10. I haven't updated the firmware for years, as they just work.
I walk into the garage, switch on headset 1, the phone pairs to that every time. When i start the bike, I switch on the SM10, it pairs 99% of the time OK. When it doesn't, a cycle of Off/On works. Once paired, it never drops.
The SM10 is mounted to the handlebars, with an Autocom cable chopped into the speaker out wires from the Alpine unit.
I don't have any problems with rain, drop outs or anything.
There is a power unit under the seat that has a choice of connectors so that I can recharge my phone or the SM10 on the move via a pigtail lead - choice of USB or Apple lightning - https://buybits.com/direct-to-battery-hard-wire-motorcycle-charging-cable-for-iphone-xr-sku-42448.html
 

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Discussion Starter #33
OK, so it’s out in the open with clear line of sight to both helmets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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"So after all these problems, I decided to "bite the bullet" and moved the SM10 to the handlebars and reroute the wiring. I can now say that I have trouble free bluetooth to both helmets
 

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Discussion Starter #37
@HOGSLYR That's good news.

I've done similar on my bike, but mounted the second SM10 under the rear seat as I found things a bit "tight" under the left canoe. Did you break the audio ground connection to one of the SM10's to avoid a ground-loop with the power negative? I chose to do that, but it may be an overkill.

Not had a chance to try it out on the road yet due to the UK's travel restrictions, but it works OK with the bike in the garage and my wife and I in the house which it wouldn't do with a single SM10 so I'm hopeful.
 

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@HOGSLYRDid you break the audio ground connection to one of the SM10's to avoid a ground-loop with the power negative? I chose to do that, but it may be an overkill.
I did not, No issues so far with the music or GPS, I did install a Ground Loop isolator in the line out of the Radar Detector into my SM-10 to clean up it's sound warnings but that's it.

Ron
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Also both SM-10's and RD are powered by separate circuits from the EZCan II.
I’ve done similar: each SM10 is powered from separate EZCan II outputs. My Fluke meter tells me that they share a common ground, so I chose the route of leaving the audio ground to one SM10 floating as a precaution, but your experience suggests that may not be strictly necessary.
 
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