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SM10 with BMW audio

12K views 53 replies 17 participants last post by  Freelander 
#1 ·
I am very disappointed with the audio quality from the stock bluetooth to my 20s headset and am wondering if the quality from the BMW satellite and FM will be better if I use a Sena SM10.
I only ask because someone told me The audio quality may not necessarily be any better.
Thanks.
 
#2 ·
I made the direct comparison by using a Sena 10s headset connected to a SM10 BT splitter and alternatively directly to BMW audio.
I could hear no difference.
 
#6 ·
Yes I can understand that. But that is more of a Sirius problem than the BT transmission itself.
 
#9 ·
Maybe the bike's Sirius implementation sucks and BT for other sources is still OK soundwise.
 
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#8 ·
SMH10 and audio quality

I too have found the radio, Sirius, weather selection from the bike to be less than 'quality'. As I have found too my SMH 10 works great with either BT, Pandora or Spotify, or plugged directly into the base from a iPod shuffle or other. Sad but that is life, eh?
Just wish it could be better as a match with Blaupunkt and BMW might be a pretty good combination. What say you?
:nerd:
 
#15 ·
It is an issue with the stock BT. Sirius sounds fine through the wired speakers but through the BT, crap. It is night and day between using Sirius via BT from phone and from bike.
When we get our bikes, Sirius gives 1 free year. I could never use it to my helmet (SENA 10U) with upgraded drivers (speakers). Did not bother renewing Sirius... just use phone now.
I 'think' the stock BT is version 2 still, versus 4.x.
It's sad IMO!!
 
#17 ·
I had major sound quality issues resulting from my first Autocom 2275 (purchased July 2013) - you can find several posts where I was trying to work out those issues. I recently replaced it and now have great sound quality. I noticed that the cable shielding on the new 2275 is much thicker. Placement of the "brain box" may also have an effect: my original was located under the right-side tank trim (so the switch could be mounted near the OEM power port) and the new one is just in front of the Alpine unit, as I found that I never use the switch (BTW, a Honda push-pin panel connector fills the hole from the 2275's switch).
 
#18 ·
I just pulled the trigger on Amazon for a PAC LP3-2 to see how that does.

Autocom just "feels" like a comms oriented company, maybe not dedicated to high fidelity audio? Thought I'd try out PAC who seems more oriented to audio quality.
 
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#20 ·
so the PAC LP3-2 connects directly to the speaker output wires on the alpine unit and then would hook a Sena SM10 into the PAC? Then I would have the wonder wheel working and be able to use sirius, etc from the bike.. correct? And supposedly sound quality will be much better?
 
#22 · (Edited)
The PAC LP3-2 has RCA outputs and I plan to use this: Poly-Planar IC-3.5PM ... a "waterproof" panel-mount 3.5mm jack with RCA inputs. I prefer using earbuds for hearing protection and audio delivery rather than Bluetooth into the helmet speakers.


For your case, yes; everything you said is spot on except maybe for the sound quality part... which I've yet to hear. I don't have an SM10 but I think you'll need an RCA-to-3.5mm adapter... and since the audio is coming from the bike, yes again... every audio feature on the bike will be there... even the navigation prompts if you have the GPS installed in the cradle.

However, this configuration also means that the bike's speakers will be active. To get around this, I plan to do exactly what the Autocom 2275 did... use a toggle switch. I just ordered this one with a rubber boot. Let me know if you need help with the connections.

NKK S6AWF - DPDT, ON-ON, 0.250" spade terminals, panel mount

NKK AT4181 - SPLASHPROOF BOOT
 
#21 ·
Can't say NBS on this post but.......

I believe there's a difference between using something like the Autocom 2273/2275 and using a line level converter like the PAC LP3-2. The Autocom or Motochello Audio Bridge transfers the audio output of the Alpine system to a 3.5mm plug/jack. In other words, the input is speaker level impedance (ohms) and so is the output. It's basically taking what you hear out of the Alpine system and giving you a connector that you can tap into however you want, like BT or a wired system to helmet speakers/ ear buds. The line level converters are generally used if you want to add a power amp to a system that you can only use the speaker outputs of the original "radio" as the input and the output is line level which is essentially a pre amp output that has been stripped of the "radio's" enhanced bass mid and highs and has a higher impedance than the normal impedance of speakers. In normal use, this pre amp output is then connected to a power amp. I have no experience with using a line level converter straight to speakers but I'm a little curious because the line level output needs a power amp to boost the power level up and brings the impedance level back down to match the speakers. It's kind of hard for me to explain this and to understand myself:eek: An example would be like using a turntable for a sound source. I'm going to assume that most of us on this forum remember turntables and how you had to plug the output of the turntable into a stereo amp in order to hear the record. To me, using a PAC LP3-2 or other types of line level converters would be like a turntable and you would be connecting your speakers straight to the output of the PAC LP3-2. In theory, to me, that doesn't seem like it would work but in practice there are members that use line level converters with success and say it sounds good. Helmet speakers and ear buds don't need much power to "turn on" so that may be the reason. Or, it's been 40 some years since I jammed a soldering iron into stereo equipment and thought I knew something about how things work.
 
#23 ·
I was hoping someone with more analog knowledge than me would chime in! I think you're exactly right, Steve... and I think the turntable analogy is a good one to illustrate a "weak" signal that needs to be brought back up before driving speakers. Like you said too, though, headphones/earbuds are pretty much always higher impedance than speakers... and so don't need as much power. My Shure SE535 earbuds are listed as 36 Ohms whereas the BMW manual says the bike speakers are 4 Ohms.

IIUC, Adam at RocketMoto was modifying the Autocom units (2275 and 2273) and I can't help but wonder if the impedance topic you mentioned is what he was tweaking. Surely it was. When you crack open the Autocom and tweak the "matching" resistor you're adjusting how it interfaces to the headphone impedance... which includes the amount of power delivered and hence volume levels.

The next question I have is *why* would he do this? Maybe because some people reported that volume levels were too low... or because he believed sound quality wasn't good? Idk. To my ear, though, and exactly like you described above for pre-amp signals, the Autocom sounds like it's stripped of the mid's and high's... it sounds "thuddy" to me... without the clarity and depth that I know is in the music files I'm using.

I'll let you know how the PAC LP3-2 does. Fingers crossed. I guess I could also search and read how this panned out for others who tried it. If it sounds bad... maybe try rigging up a simple attachment like this:


How can I monitor a line level signal with headphones? | Shure Technical FAQ

 
#25 ·
Take a look at the Sena Freewire instead. It doesn't have dual channel Bluetooth, but it has auto on/off with ignition, which is a big plus for me..
With the SM10, you need to either:
1. Leave it powered all the time (bike battery drain)
2. Connect to ignition switched power and let the SM10 battery discharge completely between uses.
3. Power the SM10 off manually when you park (limits mounting choices.)

Not sure why they dropped the dual channel, but since I ride solo, I won't really need it..
 
#26 · (Edited)
Or...

4. Connect to a switched power and remove the battery from the SM10. It will then turn on/off with the bike. The benefit of that over #2 is that if the battery discharges completely, you have to wait 10-15 minutes for the battery to charge back up enough before it will turn back on. But, without the battery, that isn't required.

I'm trying something else right now that I'll report on after I get a chance to test it... It will be Bluetooth 4.1, Dual Channel, etc.
 
#32 · (Edited)
Connected directly to the battery using a power triggered source I've never had a problem with the SM10 powering on when I fired up the bike...even when it's sat through a long MN Winter. I would suspect wire connection issues in most cases described here.
 
#36 ·
It's been a while since I wired it, but battery is removed from SM10 and have a 12v triggered relay in line with the postitive side between the SM10 and bike battery. I used tail light for the 12v trigger source, but there are other sources that could be used. I'd have to look at the wiring...been two or three years since I wired it. I have a post describing the wiring process somewhere in the how to section of the forum.
 
#37 ·
So I understand. With this set up, the SM10 turns on once power is restored? If so, then I'll wire to my PDM60 which will send power once the bike is on. But I don't want to have to manually turn the Sena on each time.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
 
#38 · (Edited)
reid figured out how to make the SM10 reliably reconnect to a BT headset and never have to worry about a dead battery. The key is in removing the battery from the SM10. Thank you reid! I wired in an SM10 earlier this year and simply disconnected the SM10's battery as opposed to removing it. This saves the hassle of trying to dig out the battery. Personally, I don't see the difference between a disconnected battery and a removed one. The SM10 is then connected to a switched source (I used the license plate light power).
I use to use an inexpensive BT transmitter that worked fairly well but would always have to initially pair it to my Sena headset at the start of the day or anytime I turned off my Sena headset like during a battery swap (SMH10R). Ya don't know what your missing until you switch to a unit like the SM10. What you miss is having to pair the BT TX every time you start the system up after powering down the Sena headset or the BT TX. I LOVE being able to simply fire up the Sena headset, start the bike and BOOM....connected. It doesn't seem to matter which one you turn on first. To be honest, twice since I installed the SM10, out of many, many power ups I didn't get the music, connected to the SM10, to come through my Sena headset. A simple off/ on of the Sena headset solves the problem. I have the SM10 installed under the front seat initially thinking I may need to get access to it but now I see where I could mount it anywhere even if it was harder to get to.

One of the times the music didn't come through I thought I'd just turn the bike off and then back on. By doing that it would restart the SM10. I did it while rolling down the road. Don't do that!! No problem safety wise but when I turned the key off, back on and hit the starter, while moving, it threw an ESA fault code. It cleared once I stopped and did the off/ on cycle again. I think I confused the bike during start up initialization in that the bike wasn't sitting still. Hind sight makes that a real DUH moment. And the music didn't restore using that method.
 
#39 ·
Steve...I also put a remote controlled relay in the SM10 line with the fob attached to key ring. Once in a great while I experience the drop-out you speak of and re-start the SM10 via remote. It take a couple minutes, sometimes, for it to find the music, but it does. Also, it probably goes without saying for proper pairing, the headset must be on b4 the SM10 is fired up...you're obviously following that procedure, but thought I'd throw that out there in case some readers forget about that.
 
#42 · (Edited)
Ditto that. Had the SM10 wired that way. Connected without fail directly at 12v .
In the mean time I had some intermittent connection issues with the main 3.5mm jack. Turns out that the receptacle that is soldered to the circuit board rattled loose. Sena denies warranty since I opened the case. Anyway I will solder it back on and continue with life.
 
#46 ·
I'm getting some distortion. I need to keep the bike volume at about 50% and the Sena around 75% to be clear but still I can hear distortion.

Normal? Maybe I have the wiring wrong or my Sena has issues?

I assume the install directions from Motochello are correct?

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#47 ·
The Motochello instructions are not 100% correct. However, the only thing wrong is that the left and right channels are reversed.

I think it is just the Sena SM10. I hear it too for a couple of seconds after the music drops to a quiet level before it fades away. I test it with the bike feeding Sena SM10 and a phone feeding the SM10 and a set of headphones connected directly to the MC and to the phone. It is there only when the Sena SM10 is in the path. It isn't a bother with music playing really, it is buried under the music.

I found it is easy to overload the input of the Sena SM10 by turning the bike up past about 50%. It works better to keep the bike volume lower, losing about 50% of the range using the wonder wheel, then setting the SM10 into "boost" most.
 
#51 ·
Oh wait I misread this as the +/- being reversed. If it is just left right it doesn't matter. I'll try the audio boost then.

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It is just the left and right that are reversed.

Having those wrong wouldn't be noticeable to most people or for most music. Some familiar songs might just sound a little off, but not in a way that many would be able to identify. But, sometimes, the music does have directional cues that can be noticed. It is particularly the case for symphonic music where certain instruments are typically located on certain sides.
 
#52 ·
This is an older thread, I hope someone else responds. I made the same construction with a PAC SN-35 converter. Everything works perfectly, but only when the speakers are switched on. Should it be better to disconnect the speakers now? Thanks in advance. (I know Motochello has a switch for that, but they wouldn’t deliver to The Netherlands)
 
#53 · (Edited)
Yes, I'd disconnect the speakers. I unplug them at the speaker so you don't actually have to cut into the wires....assuming you added the PAC SN-35 with posi-taps so you didn't have to cut the wires.

If you don't, I suspect you'll hear both the speakers and the BT delivered sound but the speaker version will be just a bit earlier than the BT version since it takes some time to convert the audio signal to digital and transmit it then reconvert it back to analog. That would probably be a bit disconcerting. If you have the speaker volume low enough to not hear them, that means you'll have to crank up the gain on the converter so much that you'll probably amply more noise than you want and the sound quality will be less than clear.
 
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