I believe there's a difference between using something like the Autocom 2273/2275 and using a line level converter like the PAC LP3-2. The Autocom or Motochello Audio Bridge transfers the audio output of the Alpine system to a 3.5mm plug/jack. In other words, the input is speaker level impedance (ohms) and so is the output. It's basically taking what you hear out of the Alpine system and giving you a connector that you can tap into however you want, like BT or a wired system to helmet speakers/ ear buds. The line level converters are generally used if you want to add a power amp to a system that you can only use the speaker outputs of the original "radio" as the input and the output is line level which is essentially a pre amp output that has been stripped of the "radio's" enhanced bass mid and highs and has a higher impedance than the normal impedance of speakers. In normal use, this pre amp output is then connected to a power amp. I have no experience with using a line level converter straight to speakers but I'm a little curious because the line level output needs a power amp to boost the power level up and brings the impedance level back down to match the speakers. It's kind of hard for me to explain this and to understand myself An example would be like using a turntable for a sound source. I'm going to assume that most of us on this forum remember turntables and how you had to plug the output of the turntable into a stereo amp in order to hear the record. To me, using a PAC LP3-2 or other types of line level converters would be like a turntable and you would be connecting your speakers straight to the output of the PAC LP3-2. In theory, to me, that doesn't seem like it would work but in practice there are members that use line level converters with success and say it sounds good. Helmet speakers and ear buds don't need much power to "turn on" so that may be the reason. Or, it's been 40 some years since I jammed a soldering iron into stereo equipment and thought I knew something about how things work.
so the PAC LP3-2 connects directly to the speaker output wires on the alpine unit and then would hook a Sena SM10 into the PAC? Then I would have the wonder wheel working and be able to use sirius, etc from the bike.. correct? And supposedly sound quality will be much better?
The PAC LP3-2 has RCA outputs and I plan to use this: Poly-Planar IC-3.5PM ... a "waterproof" panel-mount 3.5mm jack with RCA inputs. I prefer using earbuds for hearing protection and audio delivery rather than Bluetooth into the helmet speakers.
For your case, yes; everything you said is spot on except maybe for the sound quality part... which I've yet to hear. I don't have an SM10 but I think you'll need an RCA-to-3.5mm adapter... and since the audio is coming from the bike, yes again... every audio feature on the bike will be there... even the navigation prompts if you have the GPS installed in the cradle.
However, this configuration also means that the bike's speakers will be active. To get around this, I plan to do exactly what the Autocom 2275 did... use a toggle switch. I just ordered this one with a rubber boot. Let me know if you need help with the connections.
NKK S6AWF - DPDT, ON-ON, 0.250" spade terminals, panel mount
I was hoping someone with more analog knowledge than me would chime in! I think you're exactly right, Steve... and I think the turntable analogy is a good one to illustrate a "weak" signal that needs to be brought back up before driving speakers. Like you said too, though, headphones/earbuds are pretty much always higher impedance than speakers... and so don't need as much power. My Shure SE535 earbuds are listed as 36 Ohms whereas the BMW manual says the bike speakers are 4 Ohms.
IIUC, Adam at RocketMoto was modifying the Autocom units (2275 and 2273) and I can't help but wonder if the impedance topic you mentioned is what he was tweaking. Surely it was. When you crack open the Autocom and tweak the "matching" resistor you're adjusting how it interfaces to the headphone impedance... which includes the amount of power delivered and hence volume levels.
The next question I have is *why* would he do this? Maybe because some people reported that volume levels were too low... or because he believed sound quality wasn't good? Idk. To my ear, though, and exactly like you described above for pre-amp signals, the Autocom sounds like it's stripped of the mid's and high's... it sounds "thuddy" to me... without the clarity and depth that I know is in the music files I'm using.
I'll let you know how the PAC LP3-2 does. Fingers crossed. I guess I could also search and read how this panned out for others who tried it. If it sounds bad... maybe try rigging up a simple attachment like this:
Take a look at the Sena Freewire instead. It doesn't have dual channel Bluetooth, but it has auto on/off with ignition, which is a big plus for me..
With the SM10, you need to either:
1. Leave it powered all the time (bike battery drain)
2. Connect to ignition switched power and let the SM10 battery discharge completely between uses.
3. Power the SM10 off manually when you park (limits mounting choices.)
Not sure why they dropped the dual channel, but since I ride solo, I won't really need it..
Take a look at the Sena Freewire instead. It doesn't have dual channel Bluetooth, but it has auto on/off with ignition, which is a big plus for me..
With the SM10, you need to either:
1. Leave it powered all the time (bike battery drain)
2. Connect to ignition switched power and let the SM10 battery discharge completely between uses.
3. Power the SM10 off manually when you park (limits mounting choices.)
Not sure why they dropped the dual channel, but since I ride solo, I won't really need it..
4. Connect to a switched power and remove the battery from the SM10. It will then turn on/off with the bike. The benefit of that over #2 is that if the battery discharges completely, you have to wait 10-15 minutes for the battery to charge back up enough before it will turn back on. But, without the battery, that isn't required.
I'm trying something else right now that I'll report on after I get a chance to test it... It will be Bluetooth 4.1, Dual Channel, etc.
EDIT: didn't work out....it sounded good, but once the battery drained it would only power on again after turning the power back on AND pressing the power button on the device.
4. Connect to a switched power and remove the battery from the SM10. It will then turn on/off with the bike. The benefit of that over #2 is that if the battery discharges completely, you have to wait 10-15 minutes for the battery to charge back up enough before it will turn back on. But, without the battery, that isn't required.
On the Sena forum, people are getting mixed results with the battery disconnect method. It works for some, and for others, it won't work at all with the battery disconnected. They've been asking for an ignition power off mode for some time, and Sena's answer was the Freewire.. Since I don't need dual channel, I'll go with the Freewire, since I know it will power down with ignition power.
The Freewire manual says it does this with the lighter plug cable. Not sure if it does the same with the USB charge cable.. If not, I'd have to provide 12V power to the lighter plug (and avoid having to install a dual port USB power module).
For input, I'd use the gold wing model, then cut the 5 pin DIN connector off and wire it up to a Motochello speaker bridge or another speaker to line level adapter (cheaper) and build my own switch box between the BMW wires and the converter. (Simple DPDT switch. setup)
The honda unit's input is designed to connect to a port on the bike that provides headphone level outputs, so it may be best to use an adjustable converter to best match the levels to what the Freewire expects.
(Gold Wing DIN connector pinouts are readily available online.)
I had a BT TX similar to this, but one channel. Every time I powered down the bike, I had to repair it with my Sena when I powered it back up. I was too paranoid to leave it powered all the time, as my bike has done a lot of sitting and I was afraid I would drain my battery;or start a fire.
I'm going to take someones advice and remove the battery from my SM10 and connect it to my PDM60 and pray that I don't have to repair it every time I restart the bike.
Good luck with this. Might be a great farkle. Thanks for sharing.
Best.
I hardwired my SM10 to the top case connection's red and brown wires for power on the recommendation of someone else. And it does get power that way, but there's a problem. Using the battery disconnect method initially works. But after a period of time (overnight) it won't automatically power on again unless you tap the SM10's button. Being that I located the SM10 underneath the cowl at the rear of the bike, I need to remove the rider and passenger seats (2017 R1200RT) to get to it. Having to do that every day is a pain, so I'll just leave the battery connected and see how it goes. The bike is always plugged into a trickle charger when it's at home, and I don't think this setup will drain the battery on multiple day trips away from a battery tender. And this method should never cause the battery to discharge.
Connected directly to the battery using a power triggered source I've never had a problem with the SM10 powering on when I fired up the bike...even when it's sat through a long MN Winter. I would suspect wire connection issues in most cases described here.
Connected directly to the battery using a power triggered source I've never had a problem with the SM10 powering on when I fired up the bike...even when it's sat through a long MN Winter. I would suspect wire connection issues in most cases described here.
I don't understand how it can be connected directly to the battery, AND using a power triggered source. Does this mean you are using a relay or something similar to PDM60 to power the SM10?
On the Sena forum, people are getting mixed results with the battery disconnect method. It works for some, and for others, it won't work at all with the battery disconnected. They've been asking for an ignition power off mode for some time, and Sena's answer was the Freewire.. Since I don't need dual channel, I'll go with the Freewire, since I know it will power down with ignition power.
The Freewire manual says it does this with the lighter plug cable. Not sure if it does the same with the USB charge cable.. If not, I'd have to provide 12V power to the lighter plug (and avoid having to install a dual port USB power module).
For input, I'd use the gold wing model, then cut the 5 pin DIN connector off and wire it up to a Motochello speaker bridge or another speaker to line level adapter (cheaper) and build my own switch box between the BMW wires and the converter. (Simple DPDT switch. setup)
The honda unit's input is designed to connect to a port on the bike that provides headphone level outputs, so it may be best to use an adjustable converter to best match the levels to what the Freewire expects.
(Gold Wing DIN connector pinouts are readily available online.)
Where were you BEFORE I bought two SM10s a few weeks ago?
I thought the Freewire was only for the HD or GW bikes or I would have went this way. Thanks for the info.
It's been a while since I wired it, but battery is removed from SM10 and have a 12v triggered relay in line with the postitive side between the SM10 and bike battery. I used tail light for the 12v trigger source, but there are other sources that could be used. I'd have to look at the wiring...been two or three years since I wired it. I have a post describing the wiring process somewhere in the how to section of the forum.
It's been a while since I wired it, but battery is removed from SM10 and have a 12v triggered relay in line with the postitive side between the SM10 and bike battery. I used tail light for the 12v trigger source, but there are other sources that could be used. I'd have to look at the wiring...been two or three years since I wired it. I have a post describing the wiring process somewhere in the how to section of the forum.
So I understand. With this set up, the SM10 turns on once power is restored? If so, then I'll wire to my PDM60 which will send power once the bike is on. But I don't want to have to manually turn the Sena on each time.
reid figured out how to make the SM10 reliably reconnect to a BT headset and never have to worry about a dead battery. The key is in removing the battery from the SM10. Thank you reid! I wired in an SM10 earlier this year and simply disconnected the SM10's battery as opposed to removing it. This saves the hassle of trying to dig out the battery. Personally, I don't see the difference between a disconnected battery and a removed one. The SM10 is then connected to a switched source (I used the license plate light power).
I use to use an inexpensive BT transmitter that worked fairly well but would always have to initially pair it to my Sena headset at the start of the day or anytime I turned off my Sena headset like during a battery swap (SMH10R). Ya don't know what your missing until you switch to a unit like the SM10. What you miss is having to pair the BT TX every time you start the system up after powering down the Sena headset or the BT TX. I LOVE being able to simply fire up the Sena headset, start the bike and BOOM....connected. It doesn't seem to matter which one you turn on first. To be honest, twice since I installed the SM10, out of many, many power ups I didn't get the music, connected to the SM10, to come through my Sena headset. A simple off/ on of the Sena headset solves the problem. I have the SM10 installed under the front seat initially thinking I may need to get access to it but now I see where I could mount it anywhere even if it was harder to get to.
One of the times the music didn't come through I thought I'd just turn the bike off and then back on. By doing that it would restart the SM10. I did it while rolling down the road. Don't do that!! No problem safety wise but when I turned the key off, back on and hit the starter, while moving, it threw an ESA fault code. It cleared once I stopped and did the off/ on cycle again. I think I confused the bike during start up initialization in that the bike wasn't sitting still. Hind sight makes that a real DUH moment. And the music didn't restore using that method.
Steve...I also put a remote controlled relay in the SM10 line with the fob attached to key ring. Once in a great while I experience the drop-out you speak of and re-start the SM10 via remote. It take a couple minutes, sometimes, for it to find the music, but it does. Also, it probably goes without saying for proper pairing, the headset must be on b4 the SM10 is fired up...you're obviously following that procedure, but thought I'd throw that out there in case some readers forget about that.
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