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So I took the bike for a test ride after resetting the TPS.
Bike will rev to redline like it should when sitting still, i.e. in neutral.
When I put it in gear and accelerate in first it is still hitting what feels like a soft limiter around 6800-7000rpm.
I got some Liquid-Moly fuel injector cleaner and put the appropriate amount in the tank, figure it can't hurt to try at this point.
Of course I will be back with my friends at BMW of Escondido Tuesday afternoon... more to follow.
Many bikes/cars have a restriction on 1st gear, when the revs can rise so fast that the limiter, set at 8500 rpm here, can't catch an over-rev scenario in time. However I can't recall it ever being mentioned or explored on here as a problem with the K16.

You really need to find somewhere you can legally max the bike out in a higher gear or maybe it would be easier to get the bike checked out on a dyno.

Anyway, keep us posted.
 

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Troubleshooting 101:
1. it works
2. You change and/or do something; e.g. In this case plugs, coils, software, valve check
3. It doesn't work
4. Return to # 2 and fix what you broke

Duane
"You" being the dealership, and if they are struggling they need to call on the mothership for help.
 

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All valves were rechecked and remain in spec (see attached). Also bike was already in their shop for six weeks (!!!) and they are at a loss, very frustrating for me obviously. Interesting thought irt the cam timing, can you elaborate on that? View attachment 164742 View attachment 164743
It actually wasn’t me who suggested cam timing as the culprit, although certainly possible, it’s also not the only thing they could’ve screwed up on, and with a bad shop, I’d rather not speculate, lol. It seems like you’ve already gotten some good advice here, take it back, make them fix it, although at this point I’d probably be thinking about getting Motorrad involved. Dealing with such a bad dealership sucks, hopefully BMW can straighten these guys out and get you back k on the road.
 

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I would question the software update, maybe even contact BMW NA and ask what it's for and can it be reversed. Get the bike back to previous state, maybe one of the new coil packs? They certainly cause unexpected behaviour when they're not 100%
 

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If you had just one failed coil, you would almost certainly notice it. Two failed coils, your bike would run like **** and you would clearly be aware of it, especially taking off from a stop.

Six "bad" coils, I can't imagine the bike would even run.
 

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I had the dreaded cracked ring land problem. The shop put in new piston and rings. During the break in period when I pushed up into the higher rpm limits I experienced what you (RCunneen) are describing. Ran well (normal) up to about 7k and then flattened out and very slowly increased in rpm. They tried a few things but eventually went back in and found the cam chain was off by one tooth on one of the cams. If the valve clearances were good your shop wouldn’t have to do anything with the cam chain but they did something to alter your bikes performance and you are describing my previous symptoms . Originally, my shop didn’t think they could have made a mistake with the cam chain installation but were smart enough to go back in and double check the cam chain timing/ alignment. Even if your shop claims to have not messed with the cam chain, stranger things have happened. Good luck.
 

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RCunneen

Any updates?

I'm leaning towards the cam timing being off - probably rotated the crank the wrong direction while doing the valve clearance check (they didn't lift the cams because none of the clearances needed adjustment).
 

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If the valves were only checked, not adjusted (no cam removal), it seems quite the chance event that a cam could jump timing. The chain's motion appears to be quite restricted by guides over the sprockets. This will be an interesting one to follow.
 

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I went back to the first post and reread it. RCunneen said it hits 7k rpm and won’t go any higher. That’s different than my story with the cam timing (post 27). My bad and I’m sorry for adding to the confusion. The software update, however, seems curious to me. I had my bike in for the fuel pump recall in the middle of April and nothing was said, brought up or done in regards to a software update. What a pain for you and I do hope your mystery is solved in the near future.
 

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International Man of Mystery
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Maybe they updated soft to a 2017 model?
Could it be???
Unlikely. Software used to update ECMs will check compatibility of the ECM hardware and many other things before a firmware change is authorized for flashing. The 2017- ECMs are totally different animals compared to previous versions.
 
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The older bikes are based on LIN BUS, the newer bikes us CAN BUS, at least on the wires I have checked the older bikes have no CAN information and VV the newer bikes have no LIN information at the GPS interface. I know that there are newer sensors on the newer bikes and from 2017(?) onwards there have been 'features' added which do not exist on the older bikes. There should be at least two completely different firmware sets as at minimum the newer bikes would incorporate the newer sensor packages and decoding of the updated bus. A quick perusal of the parts fiche should be enough to confirm this.

Also, there is no way that it took 6 hours to download anything. Maybe it took them 6 hours to download the firmware in which case they should upgrade from dial up to some reasonable internet connection but there is no way that it took 6 hours to update the bike.

The fact that the bike sounds different would have set off alarm bells right away. I would at minimum hook up a GS911 and pull the codes to satisfy myself that things are operating as they should (no wierd codes, check rpm, etc).

Loss of performance at high engine demand is based on available air, available fuel, and resulting AFR. The AFR is measured by what the O2 sensors 'sees' as resulting exhaust gas composition. Some bikes run open loop at low RPM and closed loop at high RPM, most are the opposite, either way the engines ability to use that data and map the AFR changes at some point in the RPM range relies on the feedback it gets from the O2 sensor.. The ECU will look at these independent of speed (otherwise you couldn't rev in neutral) and apply the appropriate map entry. This comes back to making sure your intake is unobstructed, the TPS is correct, and the O2 sensors are working properly.

The simple things you can do are to check the entire intake tract, the fact that the engine intake note changed is troubling. Its more likely TPS but you never know what some garage monkey did, i have seen a similar instance where some tech stuffed a couple of rags into the intake trying to be careful and left one in there after replacing the air filter, I also saw one guy only partially unwrap an air filter (plastic over half). Unlikely but 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️. Check the motor without load (on the center stand). It should freely rev to the rev limiter. The TPS adjustment is next instructions supplied earlier in the thread.

After that, unless you are mechanically inclined, I would be taking it back to the dealer and start demanding that they roll back the firmware or that you take it to another dealer and they pick up the tab, their choice. There are no mysteries in engine management and they screwed something up, they need to fix it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Update here- so the bike is still in the shop. Big BMW is working on the trouble ticket. The tech said that they requested all of the stored data from the last few rides and yesterday they were doing checks on the fuel injectors. Expecting an update tomorrow so we'll see.
 

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@RCunneen , your dealer should also be "redoing" EVERYTHING they did to your bike; e.g. pull/check plugs, coils, etc...

Duane
 
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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
@RCunneen , your dealer should also be "redoing" EVERYTHING they did to your bike; e.g. pull/check plugs, coils, etc...

Duane
They did all work was rechecked, valves included.

So I received a call from the lead technician this afternoon, he stated that my final drive had started to go bad. There is apparently some play that caused the tire to rub on the swingarm under hard acceleration. To replace the final drive with a new part is around $3k, so I'm looking to get a used low mileage final drive. Will go in to the shop on Tuesday to see what he is talking about, the final drive is taken apart to show the problem.
And no I have no been charged for any of this, I know some of you will probably ask.
 

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They did all work was rechecked, valves included.

So I received a call from the lead technician this afternoon, he stated that my final drive had started to go bad. There is apparently some play that caused the tire to rub on the swingarm under hard acceleration. To replace the final drive with a new part is around $3k, so I'm looking to get a used low mileage final drive. Will go in to the shop on Tuesday to see what he is talking about, the final drive is taken apart to show the problem.
And no I have no been charged for any of this, I know some of you will probably ask.
Someone's getting smoke blown up their rear end.

My approach would be to have them fix what they screwed up in the engine and then I'll decide whether I want to replace the final drive.

Check if Dswartz83 has the parts you need:
 

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International Man of Mystery
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They did all work was rechecked, valves included.

So I received a call from the lead technician this afternoon, he stated that my final drive had started to go bad. There is apparently some play that caused the tire to rub on the swingarm under hard acceleration. To replace the final drive with a new part is around $3k, so I'm looking to get a used low mileage final drive. Will go in to the shop on Tuesday to see what he is talking about, the final drive is taken apart to show the problem.
And no I have no been charged for any of this, I know some of you will probably ask.
What?
If the tire rubs on the swing arm the final drive bearing is shot and you would have noticed that without a doubt.
If it is defective, it will not limit the revs under load without burning the tire up while making grinding noises. Somebody is feeding you FDA approved prime grade BS.
 
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Personally, I would want to verify this if it were my bike. From the side, grab the rear wheel at 9 and 3 o'clock and try to rock it side-to-side. Repeat at 12 and 6 o'clock. You shouldn't get more than about a mm of slop. If the engine would not reach normal rpm due to a final drive problem, it means that a lot of horsepower is being absorbed by the tire and final drive and converted to heat. At 746 watts per horsepower, you are talking about a lot of heat. I think you would have seen smoke. Previous BMW final drive designs also gave some warning prior to failure, like oil on the wheel. I sure hope we're not going down that road again.

It should be easy to check out. Ask to see where the tire made hard contact with the swingarm, and go from there. Best of luck to you.
 

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I received a message from my local BMW dealership mid-February that I should come in to receive a software update that was being pushed down by the mothership. Brought the bike in for service March 4, and had all six ignition coils replaced along with spark plugs, valve clearance check etc. (18k mi service).
When all work was complete I went to ride the bike home and immediately notice something was wrong. Power above 6k was noticeably down and even with the throttle held wide open RPM's would not go above 7k.

Looking to see if anyone else has encountered similar issues with the latest update and soliciting advice.
I had this exact issue on my R1200GS after a software update was completed CORRECTLY !!!
I also had the same issue on my K1300GT when done by a competent dealership.
On the GS I'd had it done twice before and it never held back like it did after puma boys had got involved...

I since found out how it works and that most dealers are lazy / incompetent and then even the good ones FAIL to explain there is a procedure to carry out.....

1) If the software writes a new engine MAP the bikes adaptations should be wiped out (as they were only pertinent to the OLD map) and it needs to rebuild its adaptions
2) It ONLY saves the rebuilding adaptions after the bike has been through all gears and turned off with the key for more than 10 seconds
3) It rebuilds a better, more suitable set of adaptions if its allowed to build it up over time
4) If you force it before these are suitable, it will err towards a fail safe less optimal set of adaptions
5) No one ever tells you this
6) 500 miles of sensible use with good petrol and constant saves is the right way
7) BMW can flash a bike back to the old software - but only after puma get involved, and only if they agree there's an error in the software (which is very rare)

On my GS the engine was hot and it would not rev out past 6500 rpm at all.. in the end I forced it in a low gear and thrashed it to death till it behaved... part way through it woke up and was transformed - I now realise that's not the right way. The reason the other times didn't have the same effect, was because the map was so similar and they'd never wiped out the old adaptions.

On my K1300 it was stalling a lot (so hadn't saved anything the last 15 miles had done) and was being somewhat gutless. (These ones are transformed with high octane fuel)

So what are adaptions ?

all std engines are a random mismatch of engineering mess ups, with random build quality, dodgy clearances and sub optimal running in periods, that are then filled with average / nasty fuel that varies on quality and knock resistance, and are mostly ridden by people who should be allowed on them. To work around multiple issues all that brings, each vehicle starts life with a basic starting point and builds a unique customised mess up to suit each bike's particular nasty build and dodgy data various sensors are lying to it....

I like the idea the cam timing was one out... but from experience the adaption bit is quite a possibility - if so it will highlight just how far off track dealer training and customer service is - and before we think puma heroes can help, I've spent last 4 years trying to get my GS to run as well as it had on the old Map, and even with a puma case raised, all they did was re write the bike software for a third time and then wipe the adaptions out - and that wasn't the issue - it was a broken TPS they snuck on with the that first map update that was the main driver of 4 years of ****....
 
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