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International Man of Mystery
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Any news on the subject from the OP?
 

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2012 K1600Gt
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16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #42 ·
Sorry for the delay..
Basically no updates. Last thing we did was replace the final drive with the used low mileage part... NO CHANGE WHATSOEVER.
I then rode my normal commute, same time of day/speed etc, and got around 33mpg where before I would get approx 40.
Clearly something is still very wrong.
So I spent a significant amount of time on the phone with BMW corporate, walking them through everything that occurred and it boils down to- there's nothing they can do, they can't revert to the older software, the bike is out of warranty, etc etc. Not helpful whatsoever.
I'm completely at a loss.
 

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what fuel age and grade is the bike running ?

BMW engine map updates are tiny, almost imperceptible "fixes", I don't believe, IF mechanically sound with correct valve timing the bike will not settle down to normal with the right fuel and a bit of a run under its belt. Issue is most likley a fuel grade or an adaption rebuild issue - not sure if you came across my post #40

1) If the software writes a new engine MAP the bikes adaptations should be wiped out (as they were only pertinent to the OLD map) and it needs to rebuild its adaptions
2) It ONLY saves the rebuilding adaptions after the bike has been through all gears and turned off with the key for more than 10 seconds
3) It rebuilds a better, more suitable set of adaptions if its allowed to build it up over time
4) If you force it before these are suitable, it will err towards a fail safe less optimal set of adaptions
5) No one ever tells you this
6) 500 miles of sensible use with good petrol and constant saves is the right way
7) BMW can flash a bike back to the old software - but only after puma get involved, and only if they agree there's an error in the software (which is very rare)
 

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'13 K1600GT, '17 Bonneville T120
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Sorry for the delay..
Basically no updates. Last thing we did was replace the final drive with the used low mileage part... NO CHANGE WHATSOEVER.
I then rode my normal commute, same time of day/speed etc, and got around 33mpg where before I would get approx 40.
Clearly something is still very wrong.
So I spent a significant amount of time on the phone with BMW corporate, walking them through everything that occurred and it boils down to- there's nothing they can do, they can't revert to the older software, the bike is out of warranty, etc etc. Not helpful whatsoever.
I'm completely at a loss.
Your post on the software update fiasco really concerned me. My '13 GT runs so very fabulous that I don't want anything changed or altered. So recently when my bike was in for the fuel pump recall I asked the dealer if they automatically check for and update the software too. They said yes, they do check and update the software so I told them "please do not check for software updates". I'd be interested in hearing what everybody else on the forum thinks about software updates. Am I being paranoid? Or should I let them check and install the latest software even though the bike couldn't run better. I feel like "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
 

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2013 GTL
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I'm the second owner of my 2013 GTL and its listed with the same dealership that the first owner used - they recently did the fuel pump upgrade for me, and confirmed that there's no outstanding recalls or software updates.
 

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2012 K1600Gt
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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
what fuel age and grade is the bike running ?

BMW engine map updates are tiny, almost imperceptible "fixes", I don't believe, IF mechanically sound with correct valve timing the bike will not settle down to normal with the right fuel and a bit of a run under its belt. Issue is most likley a fuel grade or an adaption rebuild issue - not sure if you came across my post #40

1) If the software writes a new engine MAP the bikes adaptations should be wiped out (as they were only pertinent to the OLD map) and it needs to rebuild its adaptions
2) It ONLY saves the rebuilding adaptions after the bike has been through all gears and turned off with the key for more than 10 seconds
3) It rebuilds a better, more suitable set of adaptions if its allowed to build it up over time
4) If you force it before these are suitable, it will err towards a fail safe less optimal set of adaptions
5) No one ever tells you this
6) 500 miles of sensible use with good petrol and constant saves is the right way
7) BMW can flash a bike back to the old software - but only after puma get involved, and only if they agree there's an error in the software (which is very rare)
I'm in California, so I'm running 91 octane premium. At this point it's a fresh tank from shell, so should be decent quality fuel. I saw your post about adaptations and we did reset them again at the dealer.
Will the adaptations continue to improve as I ride the bike more or should I reset them and start over again?
 

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I'm in California, so I'm running 91 octane premium. At this point it's a fresh tank from shell, so should be decent quality fuel. I saw your post about adaptations and we did reset them again at the dealer.
Will the adaptations continue to improve as I ride the bike more or should I reset them and start over again?
I do have a suspicion the dealers can make the older bike's run funny with software updates..... its what I've been chasing for 4 years after they did my 2007 GS in 2018
I was short of performance untill we wiped 30k miles worth of adaptions for the old map and then things improved - but then I kept getting this recalcitrance on very low throttle settings at low revs - that would start off OK, then transform to gibberish 250k miles after wiping the adaptions - after learning a bit about how the bikes behave - and not getting far... I recently made a lot more progress when I swapped out the TPS (throttle position sensor),

of course they do run badly due to emission issues and the XiFIED O2 gadgets transform them.... AF-XiED O2 Sensor Manipulators

getting the part number of the bikes engine map might be a nice move and we can start to build info about what updates BM are peddling and why...
 

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This is an interesting illustration of how the Motronic fuel injection mapping operates. The adaptations are adjustments made to the fueling as miles accumulate and the oxygen sensor feedback provides information on mixture control. Deleting the adaptations is simple with a GS-911, and should not produce dramatic changes to engine behavior. In fact, it is of benefit when using a spoofing device such as the Booster Plug. Eventually, the EFI will "correct" the fueling changes caused by the Booster Plug through adaptations. The AF-XiED operates differently, (search Lambda shifting), and will not be gradually rendered ineffective by adaptations.
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·

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if its easy to reach a resistor check on the TPS is a simple thing to see if its meeting its spec (I remain surprised the effect it had _ but that's slow speed rather than top end)
on many other BMs, fuel pressure (as the pump gives up or is blocked) is also a normal bit of fun


they give up because their job is to sell bikes not fix them
 

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just had a thought - there's a nanny running in mode that can be enabled on BMs so you can't wreck it before the first service - worth checking this isn't on ???

motoscan app can usually show and switch this mode - not sure about the K1600 - coz the cluster is so odd on these - stuff is supported by not sure if this feature is getatable - checked mine to switch from children's mode on the clock to grown up 24hr mode, and u get big red warning its a bit flaky, which no other bikes get - and you can't enable tyre temps on the K1600 either, which is nasty....
 

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just had a thought - there's a nanny running in mode that can be enabled on BMs so you can't wreck it before the first service - worth checking this isn't on ???

motoscan app can usually show and switch this mode - not sure about the K1600 - coz the cluster is so odd on these - stuff is supported by not sure if this feature is getatable - checked mine to switch from children's mode on the clock to grown up 24hr mode, and u get big red warning its a bit flaky, which no other bikes get - and you can't enable tyre temps on the K1600 either, which is nasty....
Good point. It might just be set to "Demo" mode.

 

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Mr.Fix It
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If this was me you I’d pull the valve cover and check timing; e.g. check at cam tensioner that chain hasn’t jumped a tooth or 2…

Duane
 
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Concerning software updates on out of warranty bikes: during my last visit to the dealership around May 1st '22, on my brand new to me in Mar '18, '18GT, the response I got to the question about "any updates available or do you only know when you hook it up?" was..."Well, your bike is out of factory warranty (I have after market warranty in place, which doesn't count) so we would have to charge you to look for and install updates." I was not interested in an update and so I said please forgo any looking. This was the first I'd heard of this SOP. So I'm deducing that I will never get another software update unless there is some sort or recall or required safety update. I certain have no intention of requesting and paying for one. Guys who are running a Bren tune would welcome that info, I would think. No returning to stock tune to to take it in for service. No more spending $100 for a new turn to match the update that was incompatible with the last Bren tune, etc.
 

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Sounds like cam timing to me. Maybe they messed with it during valve adjustment......
There is no all models all years software update. They are bullshitting you in a major way. Do you remember which color your neutral indicator light was? What is it now? I am asking because there was one big update years ago for bikes all the way to 2015 that affected fueling and ignition to protect the engine from detonation damage to the pistons. The neutral indicator light 'N' changed from beige to green. I had a 2014 that went through this update with no noticeable changes to performance.
That's the most plausible suggestion.

RCunneen
did they change the clearance on any of the valves?
Could you post a copy of the work order or invoice (personal info obscured) showing the details of what was done?
RCunneen

Any updates?

I'm leaning towards the cam timing being off - probably rotated the crank the wrong direction while doing the valve clearance check (they didn't lift the cams because none of the clearances needed adjustment).
If this was me you I’d pull the valve cover and check timing; e.g. check at cam tensioner that chain hasn’t jumped a tooth or 2…

Duane
And document with notes and photos.

The dealership most likely hasn't opened the valve cover to check on their work.
 

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Concerning software updates on out of warranty bikes: during my last visit to the dealership around May 1st '22, on my brand new to me in Mar '18, '18GT, the response I got to the question about "any updates available or do you only know when you hook it up?" was..
might be different these days but I expect not

the idea is to maintain your bike as badly as possible and hope it fails as soon as possible, and never let you know that some stuff got fixed / improved with later software - they don't care if you want it maintained well, are a loyal customer, or love the brand....

today's world is marketing stuff and selling lies as fast as possible - the new way gets more customers and more revenue - if you aren't happy get out of the showroom the queue is backing up

BWM have for at least 15 years worked on an i-level software iteration (a round of software to a known standard that is used on all bikes at build) in European markets the rule is for the dealers to flash the current i-level (integration level update) as it sold - and never do it again for the bikes life. And they will never disclose what they changed.

Until covid there were three software releases per year - with the next model year bike built after a factory refurb in July - so Aug is the new model range for the forthcoming year - but even this has gone wrong post covid and they seem to release the new stuff in May

Occasionally (or these days more often) as its all rush jobs to get sales before development is complete - they sometimes are supposed to do software a tweak here and there - but here unscrupulous dealers can fiddle it to look like they did an update but fail to update the bike - its why you should get the software part numbers off the bike's modules and check if they really updated stuff

this gives an idea of what was going on with I levels - bikes on the last few pages - but its getting harder to come by this info
 

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