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My bike is still at the dealer's -- an issue arose during removal of one of the ball joints. More to come.
Hi,

I have friend who has the opportunity to make several test with two bikes, GT (from he's friend) and he's GTL, were has same movement problems on high speed driving.

Is donig several testings now, but the frist one is impresive:

He has put on GTL the GT windsecreen and rear top-box, and result is the GTL becomes solid as a rock...:eek: with ot with out panniers, same as GT, even he set the confort suspension and one passenger, and really illegal speeds...(235km/h) 146 miles, right?

It sounds like the problem is not on the body frame or duolever system.

He will do more test's, I will keep you informed.

Jordi
 

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Discussion Starter · #63 ·
Mine is a GT, which obviously has a GT windshield and it also has a GT top box, and it moves around a lot even when there is a smooth road, no other traffic (trucks making turbulence) around and no wind, so having a GT windshield and top box instead of the GTL items is no guarantee that you won't have this problem.

Incidentally, the magnitude of the issue on my bike seems to vary quite a bit from one ride to another. Yesterday morning I rode for around 2.5 hours and didn't notice it at all. I thought it had either someehow gone away or maybe it wasn't as bad as I had been remembering it to be. Later that same afternoon I took the bike out again and it scared the crap out of me, feeling like it barely wanted to stay in its lane. The only thing I can think of is that it was cool in the morning (around 68 degrees F) and hot in the afternoon (around 85 degrees F). Maybe the ball joint sockets or something, expand when its hot and get looser? I've now noticed a couple of times that it seems better when weather is cooler. I'll need a few more hot and cool days before I can be sure there is a correllation though.
 

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Incidentally, my bike does pull slightly to the left, but it's so small I really would never have noticed it if not for the discussions about that here. It is only detectable if I take my hands totally off the handle bars, which is something I've never tried on any other bike. I'm not sure it isn't the bike responding to the crown of the road.
Just one thought here; are you 100% sure that you sit at the exact mid point on the saddle? Haven't we all been driving behind other motorbikers, and seen that different drivers tend to sit slightly to the left or right hand side on the saddle? I discussed this with serveral drivers years ago, after sseing them from behind driving their bikes. When I told them that "you sit on you reft ass side, and you on your right", I was told that I was sitting on my left, very well sure that "heck, no, I am sitting straight up, but the rest of you don't"... Ehhh...could this be your answer to the tracking problem?
 

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I have found that the air deflectors in the open position seem to be causing most of the movement in the bike. Closing or leaving one vent open seems to work well
 

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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
Mneblett, any update on your ball joints? Also, I was wondering how you detected that one of them was loose in the first place. Was there detectable side-to-side motion of the fork, or did you have to disassemble things enough to directly acess the ball joints?
Thanks.
 

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Just another data point.

I put 400 miles on my GTL yesterday, with the top box and side cases, and the "wings" both open. I did not notice any problems on the out-bound leg; I was mostly on back roads through the Adirondacks. On the way home I took the NYS Thruway and the bike was definitely twitchy, as if there were wind gusts pushing the bike around.

I like the air deflector theory NJMike has (cheap and easy to fix!) - I will experiment with that.
 

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Mneblett, any update on your ball joints? Also, I was wondering how you detected that one of them was loose in the first place. Was there detectable side-to-side motion of the fork, or did you have to disassemble things enough to directly acess the ball joints?
Thanks.
Work is still in progress.

I found the upper ball joint looseness by having jacking up the front to get the front wheel off the ground, and having my wife lightly pull/push fore/aft on the bottom of the forks while I had my thumb/fingers resting on both the top of the wheel carrier (fork) and the nose of the upper A-arm next to the upper ball joint. I detected relative motion between the A-arm and the fork, which could only come from a loose ball joint. (I also checked for relative motion between the A-arm and its pivots; there was none, also confirming the looseness was at the ball joint).
 

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Discussion Starter · #70 ·
Thanks for that suggestion mneblett. I hadn't looked up under the fairing to see if the ball joints were visible without removing anything. I'll try that tomorrow. I know from past experience that there is no chance of getting BMW to attempt to fix a problem unless the dealer actually experiences it or can see it directly, so I've been thinking that my only chance of getting this fixed is to show them what's wrong. I hope I can see some movement like you saw, or I think I'll be doomed to live with this issue, which is really standing in the way of my loving this bike as much as I want to.
 

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so...was it ever resolved?
You unearthed one of the oldest threads here. Looks like the OP lost interest a few years ago...https://www.k1600forum.com//members/avocet.585/
 
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useless owners manual

Note the maximum permissible payload and the speed limit for riding with pannier cases fitted, as stated on the label inside the case.

Note the maximum permissible payload and the speed limit for riding with topcase fitted, as stated on the label inside the topcase.

there is NO good reason the weights or the speed would be any higher - the K1300GT manual does indeed state don't put much in there nor go fast if using the luggage

18lbs in the panniers
11lbs in the single lid top box
22 lbs in the twin lid top box
less than 112mph max speed with luggage fitted

with luggage on the bike (full or empty), once you go over 120mph, unless you like gravel rash / are an experienced rider, brave, probably stupid, and heavy, if you have the panniers and top box fitted the thing could basically hit another vehicle's turbulence or a funny bit of asphalt and throw its teddies into an unrecoverable situation at any point

Font Parallel Screenshot Number Rectangle
 

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useless owners manual

Note the maximum permissible payload and the speed limit for riding with pannier cases fitted, as stated on the label inside the case.

Note the maximum permissible payload and the speed limit for riding with topcase fitted, as stated on the label inside the topcase.

there is NO good reason the weights or the speed would be any higher - the K1300GT manual does indeed state don't put much in there nor go fast if using the luggage

18lbs in the panniers
11lbs in the single lid top box
22 lbs in the twin lid top box
less than 112mph max speed with luggage fitted

unless you like gravel rash / are an experienced rider, brave, probably stupid and heavy, if you have the panniers and top box fitted the thing could basically hit another vehicle's turbulence or a funny bit of asphalt and throw its teddies at any point

View attachment 172821
Stupid and heavy ? 40 years on 2 wheels so i do have a vague clue. Top case and side cases were empty btw. It is simply the rudder effect of the large twin lid case and is much calmer with a Wunderlicht Marathon screen.
 

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Why would anyone expect high-speed aero when riding solo to be unaffected by a dirty great top case hung out the rear of the bike behind the rear axle?

Asking for a friend…
 

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Why would anyone expect high-speed aero when riding solo to be unaffected by a dirty great top case hung out the rear of the bike behind the rear axle?

Asking for a friend…
Hey Phil, i had a 2017 with all the cases and it was stable at silly speeds. my 2020 gt is not, the only diff is the previous bike had a Wunderlicht screen.
It should be fine at legal speeds ( not high speed by any stretch of the imagination)
 

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Hey Phil, i had a 2017 with all the cases and it was stable at silly speeds. my 2020 gt is not
If you’re talking instability at UK motorway speeds then I’d say there’s something wrong; I was taking it that you were talking about instability getting closer to Vmax.

Are you sure it’s not a tyre issue?
 

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Stupid and heavy ?

at least it got a reaction, "big, and prepared to see if you can win the fight" might have been a more accurate choice of words

....in the UK 30 odd years back, BMs with a lot of weight in the side panniers did for a lot of police bikers on that high speed bend on the A30 at guildford. I think over three years 2 died and 4 others came off. As for overloaded plod bikes. The first Plod 1100ccc paneuropean's also caused lots of fun - the fleet was disbanded and the frames cut in half. Not sure if the UK plod went with honda ever again
 

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Glad to know this is “normal.” The GTL is “squirmy” on I-95 when in the wake of traffic. Not scary like a Harley Electra Glide with the batwing fairing in wind and vehicle wake, but noticeable. Does seem more stable with the top case removed and wind screen position seems to affect the squirm. Doesn’t seem anything near dangerous at the speeds I rode daily (flow of traffic is usually around 80-85mph in the I-95 Express lanes south of DC). I’ve also had the bike to 136 (recorded on the connected app) with the top case and the drag was noticeable, and a few times north of 125 without the top case and it’s more stable, but we are pushing a wall of air at those speeds.
 
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