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what if.....you never take the 5mm bolt out..... upside and downside???? And what if you left it out permanently...upside and downside????.....haven't but has crossed my mind.......
 

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Not something I'd consider and there's no "up sides" for either.

Never removing the internal drain plug would be the lesser of two evils and it would mean that you'd never have 100% new oil in the machine at every oil change.

Just get an RL's drain plug and do it right.
 

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There's nothing cosmic about doing the normal oil change. I've done it five times in mine and not had the slightest difficulty. If there's something about the procedure that makes an owner uncomfortable, I can see the logic in letting a dealer take care of it.
 

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what if.....you never take the 5mm bolt out..... upside and downside???? And what if you left it out permanently...upside and downside????.....haven't but has crossed my mind.......
If you never take it out, you leave old oil in the upper reservoir. If you leave it out you will not be able to properly cool the oil as the cooler is fed from the upper part of the sump.

Buy one of @RL Lemke 's super plugs and it makes the whole job much easier and you never have to ask yourself the question.
 

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Mr.Fix It
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Is someone really asking this question? It’s either a joke or someone has no business owning a motorized vehicle.

Duane
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Right on ! Gunnert Nothing like starting your day with ridicule and sarcasm.....But as long as I live I will continue to ask why, what and how--only way i learn
 

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What happened to the "smug know-it-all arsehole" part. Oh, I see you edited your post. 🤣
 

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what if.....you never take the 5mm bolt out..... upside and downside???? And what if you left it out permanently...upside and downside????.....haven't but has crossed my mind.......
I suggest that this isn't as dumb a question as some might suggest. If the oil circulates from the top sump to the bottom and the pump gets its oil from the bottom, then if you have, say, 50% of the oil in the bottom at any one time and change it out, you have 50% new oil all the time. If you changed that oil twice as often as you normally would, you would only use half as much compared to a full change, you would always have1/2 clean oil and only would only need to change the filter every second or third change.
Personally, I don't find the 5 mm bolt to be that big of a deal. I cut off the business end of a wrench to square it up so that it goes in straight and fits snug and have never had a problem.
 

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I suggest that this isn't as dumb a question as some might suggest. If the oil circulates from the top sump to the bottom and the pump gets its oil from the bottom, then if you have, say, 50% of the oil in the bottom at any one time and change it out, you have 50% new oil all the time. If you changed that oil twice as often as you normally would, you would only use half as much compared to a full change, you would always have1/2 clean oil and only would only need to change the filter every second or third change.
Personally, I don't find the 5 mm bolt to be that big of a deal. I cut off the business end of a wrench to square it up so that it goes in straight and fits snug and have never had a problem.
Ahem..uhm... no.

changing half your oil (in this theoretical discussion) twice as often leads to the same number of dirty filters, same amount of oil. The result would not be that your oil is half clean, it is always going to be more than half dirty. Not only does this dilute the good oil with bad particulates and used up oil (lowering viscosity while raising deposits), it ensures that you never will have really clean oil in your engine, the longer you do this, the worse your 'base' oil gets. You won't save money, you will spend it faster in the long run and get stuck wondering how long it will take the dealer to fix the spontaneous disassembly event that took place in your crankcase.
 

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Mr.Fix It
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Right on ! Gunnert Nothing like starting your day with ridicule and sarcasm.....But as long as I live I will continue to ask why, what and how--only way i learn
Safe to assume your OP is not a joke. Sorry you're offended. Please continue to post questions when/if you have them. You'll usually find my responses for the most part spot on. And I promise, you'll never wonder side of the fence I'm on.

Duane
 

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Ahem..uhm... no.

changing half your oil (in this theoretical discussion) twice as often leads to the same number of dirty filters, same amount of oil. The result would not be that your oil is half clean, it is always going to be more than half dirty. Not only does this dilute the good oil with bad particulates and used up oil (lowering viscosity while raising deposits), it ensures that you never will have really clean oil in your engine, the longer you do this, the worse your 'base' oil gets. You won't save money, you will spend it faster in the long run and get stuck wondering how long it will take the dealer to fix the spontaneous disassembly event that took place in your crankcase.
Just for giggles in this thought experiment...the oil wouldn't always be more than half dirty. Unless I'm mistaken, the upper compartment holds only about 20% of the total capacity. So, you'd be only a max of 20% dirty after each partial change. If you changed the our 20% sooner, not twice as often, that should offset for that.

I wouldn't consider skipping that since it is easy to change once you have the RL plug.
 

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Right on ! Gunnert Nothing like starting your day with ridicule and sarcasm.....But as long as I live I will continue to ask why, what and how--only way i learn
Let's put it this way, Gunnert would be a horrible doctor with bedside manner he has. Just ignore his rough exterior and you'll find he does know quite a bit worth hearing.
 

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Personally, I don't find the 5 mm bolt to be that big of a deal. I cut off the business end of a wrench to square it up so that it goes in straight and fits snug and have never had a problem.
You still have the risk of the plug snagging the outer drain plug hole, falling off the well oiled 5mm hex key and rolling around inside the lower sump - I have a steady hand, but decided not to tempt fate and went with the 2020 revision of the RL Super Plug that has a detent holding it securely to the socket extension.
 

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You still have the risk of the plug snagging the outer drain plug hole, falling off the well oiled 5mm hex key and rolling around inside the lower sump - I have a steady hand, but decided not to tempt fate and went with the 2020 revision of the RL Super Plug that has a detent holding it securely to the socket extension.
If you look at the construction of the pan and the finger guides, you'll know that there is almost no chance (and I think it's none) that this can happen.
 

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Mr.Fix It
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+1 @coyotek , you are correct in your assumption. The fingers in the pan will not let you loose the plug.

@Route66in18 , The 5mm inner plug is VERY easy to strip, I don't care how careful you are. The RL Plug on the other hand eliminates this potential problem. Strongly suggest you spend a few dollars ( I think RL plug is around $25.00) and order the replacement now!

Duane
 
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If you look at the construction of the pan and the finger guides, you'll know that there is almost no chance (and I think it's none) that this can happen.
You're right, I could have saved a little brow sweat if I'd known that ahead of my first oil change, which is when the RL plug was installed.

I see what you describe in RL's below image.

 

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Mr.Fix It
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For those wondering "why" there are 2 oil pan plugs I refer you to this thread, post #16 for a complete explanation. In layman terms, the bottom sump pump sends oil to the oil cooler and to the upper oil pan. A pressure pump in the upper oil pan pumps the oil through the motor. Without the upper plug, a sufficient amount/level of oil would not be available for the pressure pump. No pressure pump, NO oil circulating through engine.

If you're wondering "why" Ricardo Engineering designed the oil circulating system this way you're on your own; that's above my pay grade.


Duane
 

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If you look at the construction of the pan and the finger guides, you'll know that there is almost no chance (and I think it's none) that this can happen.
It has happened a number of times.
 

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It has happened a number of times.
And I've read on this site about fishing it out with a flexible magnet but there's no way that works either. IDK if there were ever any bikes produced with a different oil pan but sometime back I took pictures up into the pan from the drain hole. It was pretty clear it was designed to prevent loosing the plug. I'm pretty sure I posted some pics on this site but they are far enough back I can't find them. I grew up in MO, so for me to buy off on losing it, I'm gonna have to see it. ;)
 
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