[Vince_S]

I hope this is the correct forum to post this. My 2020 K1600 GTL has thrown this error a few times now. The engine light comes on at start-up, and I cannot rev the engine. It's in some kind of limp mode, and only idles no matter how much I twist the throttle.

I hooked up my GS911 and it reads Throttle Valve 1 (right), control error, lower limit. See attached photo.

My local BMW shop says that this is not enough information for them to tell what the problem is, and they needed to reproduce it in the shop. They had the bike for a week and a half and couldn't get it to reproduce, so I took the bike home.

Now I'm left wondering if this problem is going to leave me stranded when I'm out on the road. I'm planning a trip from Denver to North Carolina in a couple of months, and I'm a little worried.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this, or have you encountered the same problem and know the solution?

Thanks.

 

[ViennaK]

The bike has the history of the fault stored in the memory which is more than enough evidence that it exists. Don't take their nonsense response and just share with them how it feels to lose all power going on the center lane at 80 mph and what their responsibility might be in case of an accident. Don't wait too long as the historical error codes are flushed periodically by the ECM. Is the rig still under warranty?

PS: There were several reports of Ks going into limp mode with a variety of root causes from throttle grip actuator to throttle body defects.

 

[Vince_S]

Yeah, still have a year worth of warranty left. And I thought it was a load of BS that they can't fix it unless they could reproduce it. I'm not sure if I should blame the shop or if that's something BMW tells them to do and ties their hand as far as a repair goes. Thanks for your answer.

 

[Shiny_rabbits]

Yeah, still have a year worth of warranty left. And I thought it was a load of BS that they can't fix it unless they could reproduce it. I'm not sure if I should blame the shop or if that's something BMW tells them to do and ties their hand as far as a repair goes. Thanks for your answer.

Vince, press them on this HARD. My experience may be extreme and not relevant: a broken wire in the wiring harness. There are only 2 wiring parts for the K1600's, an 18" pigtail to replace that last foot of wire to the left grip, and the ENTIRE wiring harness. I could be wrong, but in my case, the Mothership elected to run out my warranty rather than replace that entire harness. (My fault was somewhere between the pigtail and the ECU. Took me a couple of days to replace from an eBay used harness.)

Again, I may be a total outlier, but you need to self-advocate loudly here. Going into limp-home mode (1600 rpms) at 70mph is terrifyingly dangerous. Get good at covering the clutch and ride at the back of groups until you know it's fixed. (You never will, but after 2 years w/o ever seeing the problem again, I'm reluctantly considering mine good.)

 

[Vince_S]

Thank you for that reply. I really pushed and questioned them at the shop, but they mostly threw their hands up and said that unless I leave it with them until they could reproduce the problem then they couldn't do anything. That is impracticable since it could be a month or two or longer before it happens again. I'm going to contact BMW directly and raise a little stink and see where that gets me. Thanks again.

 

[scojoe]

I had the same issue 2x and a very similar code with the exception of "lower limit".
I didn't clear the code, but put did recalibrate the ECU from BT back to stock to take the bike to my dealer. They had the bike 1 day and told me the ECU didn't throw any codes. Next time it happens there will be a big a problem at my dealer if I hear the same BS. Keep us posted on any further issues, and I will do the same. Here is another thread on this issue you may be interested in reading.

 

[Vince_S]

Thanks Scojoe. I looked at the other thread and although it isn't exactly what is happening to my bike, I can see that the problems could be related. I'll keep posting on this thread if/when there are any further developments. Cheers.

 

[Geoff_3]

Vince, I know Im no expert but had a similar thing happen to me in the past, it turned out to be the connecting plug that goes into the throttle was not plugged in snugly as it worked to lose it went into limp mode and might not be your issue but a quick look can't hurt. see my photos below that will help understand what I am saying. Lets hope it is something as simple as that.

 

[Vince_S]

Thanks, Geoff. I took a look, and everything seems to be pretty snug there. Oddly, this problem is so intermittent. There's no pattern or commonalities to when it occurs. So I sent an email to Motorad's headquarters. Now waiting to see if they reply. I want to get this fixed before the warranty runs out.

 

[Geoff_3]

Thanks, Geoff. I took a look, and everything seems to be pretty snug there. Oddly, this problem is so intermittent. There's no pattern or commonalities to when it occurs. So I sent an email to Motorad's headquarters. Now waiting to see if they reply. I want to get this fixed before the warranty runs out.

Vince, I wish you all the best in resolving that. I don't know about American laws but we have a law here that says an item etc is also supposed to last a reasonable time it is covered by Australian consumer laws which also cover things like this that run out of manufacturers warranty, however, the safeguards that if it is considered reasonable I know define reasonable but if you have records that you have taken it to the dealership and they should have that noted also then you should be ok at least that is how it works in Australia. Dont take no for an answer from them and I understand that if it is intermittent it can be hard to find the issue. Writing to Motorrad will also help and who knows they may investigate more on your behalf.

 

[Vince_S]

Geoff, I do have the records of taking the bike in twice now. Hopefully, BMW won't screw me over. If they do this is the last BMW I will ever own. Since it is still under warranty I would think they, in good faith, would fix the thing for me. We'll see. I'm not a legal expert, but I believe a warranty is a legal contract.

The only question is; whether it is viable to go after them along that route. Hopefully, I won't have to find out. Cheers.

 

[Vince_S]

Update:

For anyone who might be interested, I emailed Motorrad's Headquarters about this issue. The following is the text of my email and their response:

I own a 2020 K1600 GTL with one year of warranty left on it. Several times now at start-up, the check engine light has come on, and the motorcycle is in some kind of limp mode and will not rev, no matter how much I twist the throttle. I must shut it down and restart it several times before it resets and I can ride.​

​

My GS911 shows the following error (see attached photo); Throttle valve 1 (right), control error, lower limit. Frequency count 5.​

​

I've taken this into my local BMW shop twice now to have this remedied, but have been told that there is not enough information to determine what the problem is and that they need to reproduce the problem in the shop. I left it with them for a week and a half, and they could not reproduce the issue.​

​

I do not understand why this issue cannot be addressed and corrected. I am worried that I will be stranded on the road on any given ride, or worse, that it may happen while I'm in traffic at highway speeds. I don't know what would happen if I suddenly lost all power to the bike while in heavy traffic at speed.​

​

Do I have any recourse in this matter, or do I wait for a catastrophe to happen on the road due to this malfunction? I appreciate and thank you in advance for any help or insights.​

Their response:

Thanks for contacting BMW Motorrad USA regarding your 2020 BMW Motorrad K 1600 GTL. I am sorry to read of the difficulties you are experiencing with the check engine light coming on your motorcycle.​

​

While we do understand the importance of your concern, BMW Motorrad Customer Relations is unable to diagnose potential issues with your vehicle remotely or provide repair instructions. We rely on the mechanical knowledge and technical expertise of the service teams at our authorized BMW Motorrad dealers for maintaining, diagnosing, and repairing vehicles correctly. As a result, we recommend continuing to work with your local BMW Motorrad dealer service team for assistance. If you have not done so, we furthermore, recommend speaking to the Service Manager directly.​

​

Should you need to contact BMW Motorrad Customer Relations and Services again, you can reach us at 1-800-831-1117 Monday through Thursday from 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. ET and Friday from 9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. ET.​

​

Thanks again for writing to us, Vince.​

​

Kind regards,​

​

Kristina​

BMW Motorrad USA​

Representative​

 

[ViennaK]

That is about as much as you get from them.
Discuss that with the GM and suggest to elevate the issue to the regional BMW tech rep.

 

[Vince_S]

Well, I've reached the end of the road on this one until something terrible happens. Motorrad turfs it to the shop, and the shop tells me they need to reproduce it. They specifically said that it could be one of many problems they cannot pinpoint without it occurring in their presence. So their solution is either I leave it with them until they can reproduce it or limp it in when it happens again, and then they'll know what it is.

Both solutions, for obvious reasons, are not reasonable in my opinion. This is about as maddening as it gets. C’est la vie.

 

[st13phil]

As @ViennaK suggests, call your dealer and tell them that if they’re not prepared to carry out diagnostic work to determine which of the “many problems” is causing the issue, that they elevate the issue to their regional BMW tech rep as the fault could be a threat to your safety.

 

[Vince_S]

I asked the dealer's GM and the service manager if they knew how I might get ahold of a regional BMW tech after they told me my only options were limping it in or leaving it there until they could reproduce the problem. They stared blankly at me as if I was speaking another language. It's a shame, too; I've always had a good experience at this dealership and have used their service department faithfully for all my maintenance.

I'm going to have to reassess my future options now. Even though they were adamant about their hands being tied, they took a defensive stance with me, leaving a bad taste in my mouth. There was no empathy shown for my issue.

I'll determine if a regional BMW tech is in my area and see if I can get any satisfaction through that route.

 

[LostAndRoaming]

This sucks, I've worked at car dealerships in a past life so take this with a grain of salt... Bringing the bike in while it's in limp mode will show them nothing. It sounds like they want to hook up a scanner and take live readings during the fault. The ECU has decided there's a condition to limp the bike and the condition might not even be happening after the limp mode has been entered. With intermittent electrical stuff, you either start shotgunning parts that are part of the system fault or wait for complete failure which isn't really an option on a bike.

With some car manufacturers, they have separate faults for sensors and actuators. It would of been nice if they at least walked the path of looking in the area of the fault if the fault was in memory.

 

[st13phil]

if they knew how I might get ahold of a regional BMW tech

I think there’s a slight misunderstanding here.

Each Motorrad dealer is assigned a territorial Technical Representative. Their role is to liaise between the dealer's technicians and both the country's technical team (in your case BMW NA) and BMW AG's technical team in Germany. They are the conduit for providing the expertise for a dealer to fix a problem that they otherwise couldn’t, by calling on importer level or factory level technical knowledge.

So it follows that you don’t get to deal with the Tech Rep directly, rather your dealer has to raise a Technical Case with BMW and get their Tech Rep involved in providing a resolution.

 

[Vince_S]

I see. Thanks for clearing that up, but I don't see my dealer doing any such thing. If they knew this route was available and didn't tell me about it or didn't actively pursue it, I'm certain that this is something they are not inclined to do, even at my request.

As I mentioned above, they seemed defensive at the mention of going above them. I hesitate to push them harder for fear of burning my bridges with them. I still rely on them for service (I purchased an extended service contract from them when I bought the bike), recall issues, and warranty items. I feel let down by them, but unfortunately, they are the closest shop to me, and the next one would be very inconvenient to visit for any work I might need to have done.

This whole situation has soured me on BMWs at this point. I would think that since I bought two expensive machines from them, they would at least put on a show of wanting to help me out the best they could. Instead, I'm left to feel like I'm the "difficult customer" that they'd rather just go away. All I'm asking is for them to honor the warranty that came with the bike so I can have a little peace of mind while I'm on the road.

 

[ViennaK]

Go find a different dealer then even if it requires some effort.