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If I were your insurance company I would have a problem underwriting that bike. If this were some DIY project that is one thing as it would get insured appropriately but a bike not built by the factory but instead by the dealership? Thats a no. The factory does have jigs, test fixtures, and all new parts to work with.

Frankly, this does not sound to me like a factory response. This sounds like a dealer trying to split the difference.
 

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I would reject it as well. Once it’s all said and done, this level of repair/replace will likely leave you in an inferior position as a customer, along with an inferior product no matter the warranty allowance. Unless NASA offers to reassemble it as a science project, I’d hold out for a new bike.
 

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I would ask your dealership for an appointment with the GM or owner. Explain all your concerns. My number one concern would be with the bikes resale value, even if all work is done perfectly these repairs will be in the BMW system, prospective buyers could be concerned about such massive work.

If you were in California your bike would qualify under the lemon law.

BMW should make a deal with you on a new bike in my opinion. That's what I would ask for. Your old bike could then be inspected by BMW to learn what was wrong or simply disposed. There choice.

The key is making you the customer whole. You paid for a brand new BMW motorcycle, you deserve that new motorcycle experience. If this was just a repair like the coming transmission recall, that's different. You didn't buy a re-builder. I'd hold firm, but be a gentleman about it.

It's a lot cheaper for them to take care of you than go the legal route. In addition, they have the opportunity to make a customer happy and install confidence in there product.

Best of luck to you

Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk
 

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Hi guys,

Once again thanks for your responses so far. I am concerned about a Frame change, the work involved and wether or not, if done, it will leave me with an inferior bike?

Anyone here have experience of a Frame change?

The Left Pull was bad on my bike. Will this have put any strain on the Suspension elements for instance? How easy/difficult is the transposition of Electrical Looms etc. Any other problems foreseen?

I'm trying to get a balanced view that will lead me to accept the Engine/Gearbox/Frame change or request a total replacement. I want to be fair to all concerned including BMW. All I want is an equitable solution providing me with what I paid for, a BMW K1600 GT LE that works and performs as designed. When the bike is fixed sometime on or after the end of February, should the replacements go ahead, my bike will have been in a workshop and out of use for 30% of its life.

Anyway, be that as it may, your comments and experiences on Frame changes would be appreciated.

Regards,

Tony

Regards,

Tony

Never done a frame change on a non-harley, but personally, I don’t see it as that huge of an issue. People change motors and everything else that’s been attached to the frame of these bikes at one point or another. It’s a lot of work, but a competent (key word) tech that knows his way around these bikes should be able to handle this without issue. My 2 pennies, ymmv

Just to add, I’m surprised they’re paying all this labor rather than just replace the bike as well, but since it’s their dime, I’d just roll with it. It sounds like they’re working with you, and this situation is well documented. If there’s a problem after the work, then go back.
 

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I'm curious as to what could possibly be wrong with the frame to cause a common pull to the left. FWIW, my bike does have a slight pull left when I take my hands completely off the grips, but I rarely do that and don't notice it at all even with the lightest touch of either grip. My 2004 Honda VTX1800N has a slight pull to the right, ironically.

The only thing I could imagine causing this, related to the frame, would be a vertical misalignment of the suspension attachment points, resulting in a vertical cant of either the front, rear, or both wheels in relation to each other and the frame / CG. Is there such a thing as an alignment machine for motorcycles to check what would be the camber on a car alignment?
 

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I'm curious as to what could possibly be wrong with the frame to cause a common pull to the left. FWIW, my bike does have a slight pull left when I take my hands completely off the grips, but I rarely do that and don't notice it at all even with the lightest touch of either grip. My 2004 Honda VTX1800N has a slight pull to the right, ironically.

The only thing I could imagine causing this, related to the frame, would be a vertical misalignment of the suspension attachment points, resulting in a vertical cant of either the front, rear, or both wheels in relation to each other and the frame / CG. Is there such a thing as an alignment machine for motorcycles to check what would be the camber on a car alignment?

Not that I have ever seen. I have seen frame alignment tools that are make/model specific. Typically those ensure the front and rear wheel center-line are in alignment to each other. What you're describing could be different. I've never seen a tool to do that for a motorcycle. If a center-line of the frame could be found it's possible a laser could be used to determine wheel/tire camber.


FWIW I've thought about this as my B pulls to the left when I remove both hands from the bars. It doesn't bother me to the point of complaining about it to my dealer, but the OCD/Mechanic in me is curious why it does it.


Zach
 

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Discussion Starter #67
Hi guys and a Happy New Year to all,

Thanks as always for your thoughts and input. My major concern with replacing the Frame is what happens if a Frame replacement does not solve the issue? As some here and others elsewhere have suggested the problem may not be Frame related. Moreover if the frame is replaced should ALL other parts related to steering and suspension be replaced as well? Would these parts have been subjected to unequal stresses by the Left Pull and therefore be out of alignment as a result?

I am also seriously concerned about a total re-build of Electrics and Hydraulics amongst others that will be neccasary if the Frame is replaced.

Unfortunately my dealer is closed until early Febuary on their long winter vacation (quite normal here) and so nothing will be resolved until then. On the up side this gives me time to glean as much information as possible before the proposed work commences.

Lastly and importantly to me, I ride throughout the year. Today for example is a beautiful day. If my K1600 was in the garage I would be out riding. By Febuary the bike will have been in a workshop and out of use for 6 months all in all. Considering tha it was delivered new in May 2018 thats 30% of its life. O' hum.

Notwithstanding all of these issues I'm still committed to the brand and the K1600 in particular, its a fantastic piece of kit. One way or another I'll be riding a GTL in 2020 and for many years to come.

As always I will keep you posted on developments but do keep your comments and thoughts coming.

Regards,

Tony
 

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Discussion Starter #68
Hi guys,

Notwithstanding Covid-19 I hope you are all well. I'm still in Austria and marooned due to the lockdown in Europe. That said I'm extremely grateful to be here in my little Schloss surrounded by forests and mountains. The shops have plenty of food, people are civil and all is working well.

My GT LE has waited in pieces at the dealers from October last year, very nearly 6 months this time and a month previously for various issues including oil consumption and Left Pull.

They stripped the engine and found no faults, then stripped the Frame for the left pull and again found no faults. None the less, faced with the facts, BMW authorised a total re-build with new Engine/Gearbox and Frame.

Two weeks ago they replaced the engine (which finally arrived new and with gearbox recal work completed ex factory) and frame (no defects found with the original) and were just getting ready to test ride before handing it back.....or not if the left pull remains when Covid-19 came along...........the dealership has now closed until further notice. The bike remains marooned at the dealers.

Quite what happens if the bike still Pulls Left is another story. Despite requests for a plan BMW HQ have been silent. The saga continues, will keep you posted.

Stay safe and stay well.

Best regards,

Tony
 

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What a saga your having. You have had some good advice and some not so good. In the States replacing a frame is no big deal at all as long as it is a factory authorized component replacment. Frame replacements by the factory aren't common, but they are done. How Austria sees this situation is something only they can answer. If you haven't already done so you may want to check with Austrian authorities to see how they would view a frame replacement and avoid any potential problems. Covid 19 is a whole different can of worms to be worked through I'm afraid. Hope it turns out good for you.
Rick H.
P.S. The left pull issue goes way back almost to the very beginning with this bike. One forum member back long ago really worked hard to diagnose and eliminate the pull and it was a very involved process involving front end connection points as I recall. It could be BMW wants to use your bike as a test bed to see if installation of a new frame with current specs cures the problem. It might be interesting to let BMW replace the frame and see if the problem is cured.
 

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Because it was using 1 liter of oil per 1,000kms....
Where are you currently stuck? I still have a residence close to Vienna and I got out Sunday before the lockdown started.
 

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Because it was using 1 liter of oil per 1,000kms....
Unless my math is wrong, you’re using roughly 1 quart every 600 miles. I could never wrap my brain around all these measurement conversions.:)

When I recently brought my 2018 GTL in for the recall, I casually mentioned that the bike was consuming about .5 quarters every 1,000 miles. Which means I’m fiddling with adding oil every 500 miles, just to be on the safe side. I told the Service Manager it’s annoying having to do this. He sternly replied that BMW defines acceptable as 1 quart of consumption every 600 miles, implying that my concern would go no further.

If BMW says 1 quart every 600 miles is acceptable, I’m wondering why they’re going through such expense to accommodate you. I’m glad they are, but I wish I understood what the true threshold of consumption actually is.
 

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Discussion Starter #74
I really have no idea what BMW are drinking but whichever way you look at it 1 in 2000 or 1 in 600 is unacceptable. Having said that there is a lot of misinformation out there. I would persist with your complaint, dont take no for an answer and ask how this level of oil coming out of the exhaust complies with emmisions regulations? The simple answer is it does not.
 

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I am amazed that BMW would state that burning one quart of oil in 600 miles is acceptable.

At that rate the catalytic converters would be ruined quickly.
 

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That’s a bunch of BS. When I had a problem with excessive oil usage my dealer told me there was no such thing as 600 mile per quart or any other such guidance. Ask your dealer to show you something in writing or contact an attorney.
Duane
 

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That’s a bunch of BS. When I had a problem with excessive oil usage my dealer told me there was no such thing as 600 mile per quart or any other such guidance. Ask your dealer to show you something in writing or contact an attorney.
Duane
I’m by no means going to let it go. I’m keeping detailed records of miles and usage. l’ll be talking to the GM directly about getting the engine torn down to figure out what’s going on. I’ve purchased 2 bikes and have spent thousands on accessories and maintenance at this BMW dealer. I’m sure I’ll be able to convince him to get BMW to approve the warranty work.
 

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All bikes use some oil but a qt in 600 is insane. My rule has always been no more than 1/2 qt between oil changes. On my HD, I usually add some between 6k changes. The K1600, I've never added any between changes.
 

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That’s a bunch of BS. When I had a problem with excessive oil usage my dealer told me there was no such thing as 600 mile per quart or any other such guidance. Ask your dealer to show you something in writing or contact an attorney.
Duane
All bikes use some oil but a qt in 600 is insane. My rule has always been no more than 1/2 qt between oil changes. On my HD, I usually add some between 6k changes. The K1600, I've never added any between changes.
Yesterday, I sent an e-mail to the GM outlining my 1/2 qt every 1,000 miles consumption. To his credit, he called me almost immediately to discuss further. Like his Service Manager, he quoted me BMW's 1 qt in 600 stat, but still agreed to pursue it. I got a call from the Service Manager today asking me to bring the bike in. He almost immediately apologized for giving me inaccurate information, saying he researched further and for the K16s, published info says the bike should not consume more than 1/2 qts between 6,000 mile service intervals.

It's going to be a process moving forward. He said they'll ride the bike 300+ miles and do their own measurements of consumption. After they do all their analysis they'll make a recommendation to BMW for moving forward. It could be new rings, replacement of other engine components TBD, or worst case, a new engine. He couldn't tell me how long they'll have the bike, but said it could be a while. It's never a great time, but better now than later. At least their is hope for a happy ending. Thanks for all the input.
 
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