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^While the repair instructions are comprehensive and tools have been provided, the one bit of them that unnerves me is the requirement to heat certain components to a relatively precise temperature for re-assembly, and in particular the warning not to overheat them. In an assembly shop these items would typically be heated in a temperature-controlled oven - something I've never seen in a dealer workshop. The typical workshop method for heating is a heat gun or flame, and both methods are prone to either insufficient heat, or overheating, whether that be localised or the whole component.

This and the notes about the possibility of damaging a bearing by misuse of a tool that no one has ever seen before along with setting up the clearances by many average techs after only watching a training video is why I think this may not go as well as we all hope, The cure may be worse than the disease! I'm a bit of a pessimist so I'm hoping I'm wrong!
 

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This and the notes about the possibility of damaging a bearing by misuse of a tool that no one has ever seen before along with setting up the clearances by many average techs after only watching a training video is why I think this may not go as well as we all hope, The cure may be worse the the disease! I'm a bit of a pessimist so I'm hoping I'm wrong!
An infrared probe will solve the heating problems, the temperatures are approximations, not precision and they aren't that high. When BMW says don't overheat it they are talking about taking the part to temperatures that would change the metals structure. From a process perspective many users on the forum do that all the time when replacing bearings, etc. I agree [email protected]; that this could have been handled a bit better but its a thin line in managing cost and I am sure the engineers didn't get their way completely. This isn't really any different than many other engine repair procedures and the tools that they provided are fairly simplistic in design, I wouldn't worry about those either (imagine what it would be like without them). if you are concerned, ask the techs or service manager how they are going to handles those steps you are worried about... I would, and I would position as coming out of 'shared concern'. "I know this is probably something we don't want to do twice. (Svc Mgr acknowledges). I was reading through the instructions one of the forum members posted online and noticed that there are a few critical spots to get right (heat and measurement), are you guys really comfortable with that" Most service managers will start talking at this point about how they are going to handle it. If there is any hesitation, either find someplace else or move yourself further down the line. But... its just not that difficult of a procedure.
 

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^ This.

If you look at the parts fiche (example here - click on one of the "individual transmission parts" panels) for the K1600 transmission you'll see that both the Drive Shaft and the Intermediate Shaft (those with the gear pinions and selector sleeves on them) are supplied as complete units, rather than the individual components. Dismantling the shafts to replace individual components was not anticipated as a field repair process, hence the need to develop specific repair processes and tools to allow the dealers to undertake this work.

While the repair instructions are comprehensive and tools have been provided, the one bit of them that unnerves me is the requirement to heat certain components to a relatively precise temperature for re-assembly, and in particular the warning not to overheat them. In an assembly shop these items would typically be heated in a temperature-controlled oven - something I've never seen in a dealer workshop. The typical workshop method for heating is a heat gun or flame, and both methods are prone to either insufficient heat, or overheating, whether that be localised or the whole component.

I'm surprised in a way that BMW didn't choose to provide the shafts with revised selector sleeves and 6th gear pinion on a service exchange basis. This would have required an initial priming of the system in any given geographical locale with pairs of assembled shafts, but would have resulted in a quicker, easier, dealer workshop task and would be much easier to manage from a quality control point of view.


I noted the “heating” instruction too Phil and wondered how that will actually pan out in an ordinary BMW Workshop environment where there are not just a queue of K’s neatly booked in, there will be ongoing servicing of all bike models, unexpected arrivals, new bikes being prepped before going out etc.


I have a lot of time for the BMW Techs that I have spoken to whilst working on my bikes however, in an uncontrolled workshop environment where time is money? ......and pressure to turn bikes around.


I noted on my BMW Warranty Claims the tendency to replace entire components rather than break them down, although to be fair a lot of these components were corrosion related.


I took the view that BMW for instance would happily authorise entire component replacements as the 3rd Party Supplier would bear the cost of said replacement anyway therefore the cost of replacement would have very little impact on BMW themselves.


I know I’m stating the obvious in one sense, whoever I’m sure most of us have watched the Videos showing the K’s etc being assembled on the factory line and this confirms to a great degree how many components arrive from 3rd Party Suppliers, otherwise the bike’s would cost waaaaay more if they extensively hand built by BMW rather than hand assembled. All of which brings me back to the Transmission Issue, why (if this is a slide-out component) is it not simply replaced with an entirely new unit ......and the answer I hear being hollered back at me is...... cost/the supplier goes bust? ......like the Airbag Supplier Companies which simply imploded when confronted with millions of replacement airbag replacement claims. Easier to go bust and walk away?


I suppose what many of us are now waiting for is to hear the 1st bike being recalled to the workshop and the gearbox work actually being done.


On a separate note, I do wonder where we stand on Used Values for New Arrival Bikes? To be honest, the folks with Used Bikes will have taken/benefitted from the depreciation (as I do when I buy a 6 month or year old car). I only raise that point due to the high initial cost of a Brand New K, albeit with all my warranty replacements, my New Model 2018 K (supplied in Summer 2017) will be replaced with a Spring/Summer 2020 at no extra cost to me, so that’s a huge plus albeit I think that 2020 Bike will drop 30% as soon as I take delivery.


Money & Depreciation aside..... one cannot replace the sound of the K engine when opened up and that turbine power delivery that I have yet to feel from any other bike. My Valkyrie Rune had a stonking engine (the Goldwing), unfortunately it had the suspension of a wooden barge!


Whilst your K’s are in for warranty work folks, take the 1250GSA out and give it a decent run, you may be surprised. It’s no K however it does bring a different smile to your face.
 

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While the repair instructions are comprehensive and tools have been provided, the one bit of them that unnerves me is the requirement to heat certain components to a relatively precise temperature for re-assembly, and in particular the warning not to overheat them. In an assembly shop these items would typically be heated in a temperature-controlled oven - something I've never seen in a dealer workshop. The typical workshop method for heating is a heat gun or flame, and both methods are prone to either insufficient heat, or overheating, whether that be localised or the whole component.
I am not worried. I am certain they have hammers and screwdrivers of various sizes and will get that gear seated in short order...

:serious:
 

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The good thing is..... we’ll never know whether the correct procedure is followed or not, unless we stand with our nose pressed up against the workshop window. Rather like ......would you want to see what a surgeon does whilst patient is under. My Mother got a new knee joint. I watched a YouTube Video beforehand so I could reassure her that all would be fine?!!! .......Feck Me! .......when the drill appeared and the surgeon started drilling away, I thought WTF!!! lol

Collect bike after repair. Start, Engage Gear, if Loud Grinding Noise then Gearbox Explodes, pop sidestand down and head back to Service Desk to rebook your Bike in.


This’ll be my last K16, I suspect BMW will replace the current model soon as they’ll need to get everyone chopping in their K16’s for the next model. No updated dash/significant improvements over recent years suggests they are done with the K16. The K12 had its day, likewise the K16. iPhone 20 anyone?
 

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I am not worried. I am certain they have hammers and screwdrivers of various sizes and will get that gear seated in short order...

:serious:
And if your dealer is located where there is a lot of snow, they can just stick the shaft in the snow for a few minutes and then the gear will slide right on with no problem and no heat needed.
 

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The good thing is..... we’ll never know whether the correct procedure is followed or not, unless we stand with our nose pressed up against the workshop window. Rather like ......would you want to see what a surgeon does whilst patient is under. My Mother got a new knee joint. I watched a YouTube Video beforehand so I could reassure her that all would be fine?!!! .......Feck Me! .......when the drill appeared and the surgeon started drilling away, I thought WTF!!! lol
When my wife had her c-sections, I was more interested in peeking over the curtain to watch the surgeon close than I was in being hustled across the delivery room to cut the umbilical cord. I'm a veterinarian. I've cut tissue before - nothing exciting. I wanted to make sure the surgeon did an appropriate closure. It's basically a spay with a couple more layers.
 

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When my wife had her c-sections, I was more interested in peeking over the curtain to watch the surgeon close than I was in being hustled across the delivery room to cut the umbilical cord. I'm a veterinarian. I've cut tissue before - nothing exciting. I wanted to make sure the surgeon did an appropriate closure. It's basically a spay with a couple more layers.


I’ve cut cake before. Forgive me if drilling a knee joint was a surprise for me, at least watching it on video, especially when the drill looks like one from my workshop :grin:
 

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Not so bad noh.


I live in Scotland/UK so your price in Stockholm is around a 1000UK£ or 12000SEK more, although my UK price includes the radio/speakers (which are pretty much pointless).


A friend of mine has travelled/worked in Denmark over the years and always commented on how the local taxes were on imported cars/bikes etc - doesn’t seem too bad on your example.


Will be interesting to see if the 2020 Build Bikes arrive with correct gearbox or require to be modified by the dealer. I’m awaiting an answer from BMW HQ on that as I’ll happily delay my order until BMW start building/shipping the K’s with correct gearbox. I have zero interest in my bike being semi-dismantled having gone through that with my New/2018 GTL replacement short engine, which I then declined due to the number of new parts/strip-down of my new bike under warranty. Thankfully they gave me a new replacement, which then had to be replaced under warranty, then another which I just declined due to the gearbox saga. My 1200 Triple Black had £4500 worth of warranty replacement work so BMW have certainly honoured their warranty. I will have had 4 New GTL’s in 2 years, 3 under warranty ......although the service from my Dealer is exceptional.
I would think the same laws apply all over the world that any defect or recall on a new bike that has not left the factory has to be fixed by the manufacturer before selling it toa. dealership or customer and then if a dealer has a defected or recalled unit they can not on-sell till such time it is fixed and cleared from the recall/defect. I was discussing this with my dealer principal yesterday and he mentioned that a lot of the manufacturers are doing the same as BMW is now and not releasing them till all the recalls or defects are clear. I said it would be due to someone in the world buying a defected bike and having a major problem/crash and was sued because if not complying with the duty of care and the laws when it comes to selling a defected bike or car. So, in short, I would say it is safe to say the 2020 models will be fine once they are also released.
 

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The good thing is..... we’ll never know whether the correct procedure is followed or not, unless we stand with our nose pressed up against the workshop window. Rather like ......would you want to see what a surgeon does whilst patient is under. My Mother got a new knee joint. I watched a YouTube Video beforehand so I could reassure her that all would be fine?!!! .......Feck Me! .......when the drill appeared and the surgeon started drilling away, I thought WTF!!! lol

Collect bike after repair. Start, Engage Gear, if Loud Grinding Noise then Gearbox Explodes, pop sidestand down and head back to Service Desk to rebook your Bike in.


This’ll be my last K16, I suspect BMW will replace the current model soon as they’ll need to get everyone chopping in their K16’s for the next model. No updated dash/significant improvements over recent years suggests they are done with the K16. The K12 had its day, likewise the K16. iPhone 20 anyone?
lol I can so relate to your reference on the Knee replacement, I watched a youtube video when I mate was getting his 2 knees done and sent it on to him sorry but I know I am an arse lol. Just so he could **** his self lol the Hammers and chisels along with the drills and twisting of the legs when doing the operation was interesting, to say the least. My mate, on the other hand, was not amused after he watched the video and told me his having second thought lol. :wink: His had it done and knew nothing about what happen once he went under then came out of rehab and now walks better then he did before. So I am sure our bikes are going to be fine and the less we know how or what they do with them the better lol. As long as it is fixed and covered under warranty and it will be covered.:wink::smile::grin:
 

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... Hammers and chisels ...
Mallets and osteotomes! Geez, we aren't Neanderthals in the OR. Then again, I won't confirm or deny that a testicle fight has taken place in my OR. 0:)
 

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I noted the “heating” instruction too Phil and wondered how that will actually pan out in an ordinary BMW Workshop environment where there are not just a queue of K’s neatly booked in, there will be ongoing servicing of all bike models, unexpected arrivals, new bikes being prepped before going out etc.


I have a lot of time for the BMW Techs that I have spoken to whilst working on my bikes however, in an uncontrolled workshop environment where time is money? ......and pressure to turn bikes around.


I know I’m stating the obvious in one sense, whoever I’m sure most of us have watched the Videos showing the K’s etc being assembled on the factory line and this confirms to a great degree how many components arrive from 3rd Party Suppliers, otherwise the bike’s would cost waaaaay more if they extensively hand built by BMW rather than hand assembled. All of which brings me back to the Transmission Issue, why (if this is a slide-out component) is it not simply replaced with an entirely new unit ......and the answer I hear being hollered back at me is...... cost/the supplier goes bust? ......like the Airbag Supplier Companies which simply imploded when confronted with millions of replacement airbag replacement claims. Easier to go bust and walk away?


I suppose what many of us are now waiting for is to hear the 1st bike being recalled to the workshop and the gearbox work actually being done.


On a separate note, I do wonder where we stand on Used Values for New Arrival Bikes? To be honest, the folks with Used Bikes will have taken/benefitted from the depreciation (as I do when I buy a 6 month or year old car). I only raise that point due to the high initial cost of a Brand New K, albeit with all my warranty replacements, my New Model 2018 K (supplied in Summer 2017) will be replaced with a Spring/Summer 2020 at no extra cost to me, so that’s a huge plus albeit I think that 2020 Bike will drop 30% as soon as I take delivery.


Money & Depreciation aside..... one cannot replace the sound of the K engine when opened up and that turbine power delivery that I have yet to feel from any other bike. My Valkyrie Rune had a stonking engine (the Goldwing), unfortunately it had the suspension of a wooden barge!


Whilst your K’s are in for warranty work folks, take the 1250GSA out and give it a decent run, you may be surprised. It’s no K however it does bring a different smile to your face.
To add, within my reach / network of mechanics, alot of the seasoned pros who can handle this task blindfolded has either passed or retired. I can't trust a novice with a video and instruction sheet to tear into this gear box, even with oversight from their shop foreman.....I may be thinking worst case here, but I'm not in the mood for multiple return trips because joey and or antny F'd up something on reassembly... For the folks who still have seasoned pros around and within their reach more power to you.. I made a decision to dump this bike way before the member posted the repair procedure and with a glance at that document just supports my decision even more.
I would of kept the bike and waited patiently to get the recall resolved.. If, BMW would of sent specialists to USA dealers to provide oversight or actually perform the repair.... but as some folks stated in this thread they are only concerned about bottomline.
I will miss the turbine like WOT sounds, handling, looks of my "B", I'll get another chance to get another one down the line..... when they finally update the **** thing, especially the cockpit to bring it up to date.... so for now, below is the replacement not quite the K-B but **** close and just as therapeutic!! and with a dash that's more in line with todays tech.... so far so good, no weeping calipers on this 2020
 

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To add, within my reach / network of mechanics, alot of the seasoned pros who can handle this task blindfolded has either passed or retired. I can't trust a novice with a video and instruction sheet to tear into this gear box, even with oversight from their shop foreman.....I may be thinking worst case here, but I'm not in the mood for multiple return trips because joey and or antny F'd up something on reassembly... For the folks who still have seasoned pros around and within their reach more power to you.. I made a decision to dump this bike way before the member posted the repair procedure and with a glance at that document just supports my decision even more.
I would of kept the bike and waited patiently to get the recall resolved.. If, BMW would of sent specialists to USA dealers to provide oversight or actually perform the repair.... but as some folks stated in this thread they are only concerned about bottomline.
I will miss the turbine like WOT sounds, handling, looks of my "B", I'll get another chance to get another one down the line..... when they finally update the **** thing, especially the cockpit to bring it up to date.... so for now, below is the replacement not quite the K-B but **** close and just as therapeutic!! and with a dash that's more in line with todays tech.... so far so good, no weeping calipers on this 2020
I am thinking about trading my B for a 1250RT. Did you get a decent deal on the trade?
 

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I am thinking about trading my B for a 1250RT. Did you get a decent deal on the trade?
Good luck with that; Tampa BMW not one 1250RT in inventory. Stand by for a pretty massive hit.

Wait for the TFT display to migrate from GS and there might be a few deals on low mileage 1250RT trades. :smile:

Tom
 

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I had a tooth implant and I swear he took the tools right out of my garage. Even the digital torque wrench.:cool:
 

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Bluenoser,

I'm in the great Thames Valley of the UK (just west of London).

BMW do have a lot of dealers to supply with tools and parts. I am quite happy to be at the back of the queue for this fix - hopefully the techs will have it all off pat by then and had a chance to test run several "fixed" bikes. If my GTL did start to play up, I'd just drag out one of my Panthers, instead!

Old Foxy
 
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