BMW K1600 Forum banner

1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
303 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
When I get green light in a intersection on the highway, I sometimes want to lose everyone behind me to do a 3-4 lane shift or something similar. I then tries different ways to do this but think there has to be much improvements from my technique to do it good. One way is of course to get a high rpm before shifting gear, but what gear I then should use I don’t know. 1-2-3-4-5-6 seems idiotic and I go from 1 to 3 to 5 but other times other combinations. Telling what I do is not the point here, you guys telling me....is. lol
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,872 Posts
I can't say that I've ever thought that I needed to skip a gear in an upshift while hustling down the road. Is your concern that it takes too long to make each shift? Is it too jerky when you shift when you're hard on the power?

Shifts can be made very quickly on the bike with a little bit of practice. I pre-load the shifter just a split-second before I initiate the shift so that when I pull in the clutch it quickly snicks into the next gear. You don't want to pre-load it too soon (multiple seconds) because that will put some wear and stress on the shift dogs in the transmission. Just slightly before you actuate the clutch. If you're not already doing that, try it and see how it works for you. I aways felt the 1600 gear box was a pretty decent thing for sporty riding.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
77 Posts
You can shift
1-3-4-6
If you did that you would be skipping
2-4

or

You can shift
1-2-4-6
Then you would be skipping
3-5

or

You can shift
2-6
and you would be skipping the
1-3-4-5

You get the idea.

OR
You can shift the way BMW designed the gear box. (I think it is in the the owners manual)
1-2-3-4-5-6

Just a radical idea on my part.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
676 Posts
When I get green light in a intersection on the highway, I sometimes want to lose everyone behind me to do a 3-4 lane shift or something similar. I then tries different ways to do this but think there has to be much improvements from my technique to do it good. One way is of course to get a high rpm before shifting gear, but what gear I then should use I don’t know. 1-2-3-4-5-6 seems idiotic and I go from 1 to 3 to 5 but other times other combinations. Telling what I do is not the point here, you guys telling me....is. lol
Not sure what you're asking but no self-respecting sportbike rider I know would skip a gear. With the way the typical sportbike build power with RPM, you get up into the powerband ASAP and shift as needed to stay there.

K1600 is a touring motor with a flat torque curve that peak at relatively low RPM. Kinda pointless to "upshift like a sportbike"... not when 80% of the torque is available from about 2000RPM.

If you want to accel as fast as possible from standing, get to just past peak torque in first gear, shift, and repeat.

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,275 Posts
Fifth gear is the least used gear on my bike. Followed closely by fourth gear. By the time I am ready to shift out of third gear I am at any legal speed limit in the county. No sense going through the motions of stopping in a gear I'm not gonna use.

What any of this has to do with sportbike shifting is beyond my level of comprehension.
 
  • Like
Reactions: reggiehammond

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,308 Posts
My experience in general on motorcycles is that they don’t really like skipping gears. It means that you are doing two shifts without engaging the first one at all. Many times the second shift wants to hang up and/or not engage smoothly. This is not a 100% of the time thing, but it does happen.

Conversely when down shifting quickly through several gears I like to engage the clutch at least a little in each gear as I go down. If I don’t really need a gear I’ll just ride the clutch out slightly in gears I don’t need. I know this may seem odd to some people who don’t do it, but it seems to avoid clunky double shifts that may not want to engage smoothly and hang up a little as they try to “pass through” a gear.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
303 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
The bike will do 65mph in second gear in about 4.5 seconds..... how fast do you need to go to lose the traffic and change lanes over there?
You have a point there and I guess could have written something better, when asking in this matter.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
303 Posts
Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Not sure what you're asking but no self-respecting sportbike rider I know would skip a gear. With the way the typical sportbike build power with RPM, you get up into the powerband ASAP and shift as needed to stay there.

K1600 is a touring motor with a flat torque curve that peak at relatively low RPM. Kinda pointless to "upshift like a sportbike"... not when 80% of the torque is available from about 2000RPM.

If you want to accel as fast as possible from standing, get to just past peak torque in first gear, shift, and repeat.

Yes you are right I was not asking about this in the right way. I guess it’s my lack of knowledge in this matter that IS the reason for asking but also the reason I ask it the way I do.

Well I heard this about not skipping them before but if I speed away and then shift at..let’s say 4000-5000 and putin 2:nd gear it will decrease in speed and I also find it hard knowing how much power I should have and/or how fast I can let the clutch handle out. When I skip a gear or two, this feels more logic when upshifting,....and the sound of the engine is not a screaming noice of low gear at high speed...

And yes, my knowledge about bikes is a couple of years old and I went from 500cc and automatic gearbox, to the K1600. Yes it was a to big leap but now I passed that and driven 8000 km. And the things I ask here are those I have not figured out of my own and know that there are many here with a lot of knowledge and visdom, so I keep asking what can seen as newbie questions because I am one... ;)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,872 Posts
...but if I speed away and then shift at..let’s say 4000-5000 and putin 2:nd gear it will decrease in speed and I also find it hard knowing how much power I should have and/or how fast I can let the clutch handle out...
Jacob, it sounds like you're asking about riding it around on roads were you don't typically get above, say 100 k/h? If that's the case, then just do what we'd call short shifting it. The bike is most definitely not "screaming" at 3500 - 4000 rpm and if you just shift it to keep it in that range, you should feel better about it. Yes, you will have to shift more often but the 1600 is a sporty bike and most riders like that. It has great amounts of torque in the lower revs so you can ride it there happily but the transmission and engine likes it from about 3500 up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
676 Posts
Well I heard this about not skipping them before but if I speed away and then shift at..let’s say 4000-5000 and putin 2:nd gear it will decrease in speed and I also find it hard knowing how much power I should have and/or how fast I can let the clutch handle out. When I skip a gear or two, this feels more logic when upshifting,....and the sound of the engine is not a screaming noice of low gear at high speed...

And yes, my knowledge about bikes is a couple of years old and I went from 500cc and automatic gearbox, to the K1600. Yes it was a to big leap but now I passed that and driven 8000 km. And the things I ask here are those I have not figured out of my own and know that there are many here with a lot of knowledge and visdom, so I keep asking what can seen as newbie questions because I am one... ;)
I think I know where you are coming from. If you went straight from a auto-shifter to the K1600, I can see why you would wonder about shift points. For most of us, we learned to ride on bikes with modest HP/torque. With a smaller engine, it becomes very obvious to the rider when the bike is in the wrong gear... short shift too early, and you'd be trying to accelerate with too tall a gear and not enough torque at too low RPM. Most riders quickly learn how far up the RPM to hit before shifting, if one wishes to accelerate smartly in each gear.

"Problem" with the K1600 is that the 1649cc inline 6 has so much torque EVERYWHERE that you could short shift straight to 6th gear and still have gobs of pull to accelerate the bike. 80 ft-lbf of torque just off idle at 1500 RPM is more than many 1000cc superbikes have at redline. This is why it seems pointless to shift through each gear and why many K1600 riders choose to "skip" a gear or 2. It is almost like a big fat V-win cruiser engine in that regard... without the potatoe-potatoe, of course.

Also, if you are wondering WHEN to let out the clutch when shifting, you are doing it wrong. You should almost never pull the clutch in completely and hold it for any amount of time for each shift. For vast majority of upshift and downshift, the clutch pull should be a very fast and light one - just past the friction point - just enough to take tension off the geartrain so the rider can snick in the gear change, with a synchronized push/pull of the shift pedal. An experience rider can do this "quick stab" easily with 2-fingers, even with a fairly heavy clutch. Unfortunately for you, the K1600 is not an ideal learning tool for this. This is due to a couple of reasons:

1. The infamous BMW "clunk". This is well documented and discussed, so I won't say too much. Some of is exacerbated by the long shift pedal travel. Early GTL is worst; my GT isn't too bad.

2. The K1600's clutch friction (engagement) point is not exactly the same for all operating conditions. Again, this is talked about quite a bit in reviews and forums.

These "issues" don't bother me too much, and I suspect a lot of riders, by the time they graduated to the K1600, are seasoned enough to be able to adapt to it, to some degree.

My advice is to see if you can practice on a different bike, preferably one with a small-ish engine. You should get the idea pretty quickly. Then you can take that experience and apply back to your K1600 riding.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
303 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I think I know where you are coming from. If you went straight from a auto-shifter to the K1600, I can see why you would wonder about shift points. For most of us, we learned to ride on bikes with modest HP/torque. With a smaller engine, it becomes very obvious to the rider when the bike is in the wrong gear... short shift too early, and you'd be trying to accelerate with too tall a gear and not enough torque at too low RPM. Most riders quickly learn how far up the RPM to hit before shifting, if one wishes to accelerate smartly in each gear.

"Problem" with the K1600 is that the 1649cc inline 6 has so much torque EVERYWHERE that you could short shift straight to 6th gear and still have gobs of pull to accelerate the bike. 80 ft-lbf of torque just off idle at 1500 RPM is more than many 1000cc superbikes have at redline. This is why it seems pointless to shift through each gear and why many K1600 riders choose to "skip" a gear or 2. It is almost like a big fat V-win cruiser engine in that regard... without the potatoe-potatoe, of course.

Also, if you are wondering WHEN to let out the clutch when shifting, you are doing it wrong. You should almost never pull the clutch in completely and hold it for any amount of time for each shift. For vast majority of upshift and downshift, the clutch pull should be a very fast and light one - just past the friction point - just enough to take tension off the geartrain so the rider can snick in the gear change, with a synchronized push/pull of the shift pedal. An experience rider can do this "quick stab" easily with 2-fingers, even with a fairly heavy clutch. Unfortunately for you, the K1600 is not an ideal learning tool for this. This is due to a couple of reasons:

1. The infamous BMW "clunk". This is well documented and discussed, so I won't say too much. Some of is exacerbated by the long shift pedal travel. Early GTL is worst; my GT isn't too bad.

2. The K1600's clutch friction (engagement) point is not exactly the same for all operating conditions. Again, this is talked about quite a bit in reviews and forums.

These "issues" don't bother me too much, and I suspect a lot of riders, by the time they graduated to the K1600, are seasoned enough to be able to adapt to it, to some degree.

My advice is to see if you can practice on a different bike, preferably one with a small-ish engine. You should get the idea pretty quickly. Then you can take that experience and apply back to your K1600 riding.
Thank for the advice. You kind of brake the ice here because it really sounded like I was the only one skipping gears. And yes the reson is just what you say, I can drive using 3,4,5 or 6 most times. I have a early GTL, a 2012. The clunky sound doesn’t really bother me anymore even though I often drive and try to avoid it, being extra soft on slowing down and maintaining a constant speed.

There are no smaller bike to practice on so I just have to struggle on with the k16. It’s not a big thing but ai pop questions I haven’t figure out yet and see what respons I get. Sometimes I get really surprised when a simple thought here goes from “you can’t do that” to a big subject where a lot of riders do what I thought was no one, like how many stands up when riding....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Thank for the advice. You kind of brake the ice here because it really sounded like I was the only one skipping gears. And yes the reson is just what you say, I can drive using 3,4,5 or 6 most times. I have a early GTL, a 2012. The clunky sound doesn’t really bother me anymore even though I often drive and try to avoid it, being extra soft on slowing down and maintaining a constant speed.



There are no smaller bike to practice on so I just have to struggle on with the k16. It’s not a big thing but ai pop questions I haven’t figure out yet and see what respons I get. Sometimes I get really surprised when a simple thought here goes from “you can’t do that” to a big subject where a lot of riders do what I thought was no one, like how many stands up when riding....


I just returned to SoCal from 8 nights in the the Bangkok area and kept a watchful eye out for BMW bikes and I saw just 1 1200GS.
I commute on my K1600GT almost daily to work but I would consider a K1600 the worst choice of bikes for that country. Just because you can afford to own it doesn't mean you should.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

·
Jim's Brother
Joined
·
2,771 Posts
If the intent is to leave the traffic behind you quickly then it's much quicker to hit all the gears. The extra time it takes to "skip" gears can be better spent with the power to the ground when using all of them. I rarely skip gears but if I do then one reason is in a situation where I'm just getting up to posted speed and not trying to gain space from the snails around me but in those situations I normally just short shift through the gears. Another reason is if I dropped down a couple of gears to blip around someone then, after the pass, I may just skip back up to top gear if I'm in a "radar safe" zone and I don't need the engine braking of the lower gear to get back down from warp speed.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
303 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
I just returned to SoCal from 8 nights in the the Bangkok area and kept a watchful eye out for BMW bikes and I saw just 1 1200GS.
I commute on my K1600GT almost daily to work but I would consider a K1600 the worst choice of bikes for that country. Just because you can afford to own it doesn't mean you should.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Yes I totally agree with you, driving it in Bangkok. Luckily for me I’m not driving there...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
303 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
The extra time it takes to "skip" gears can be better spent with the power to the ground when using all of them. Another reason is if I dropped down a couple of gears to blip around someone then, after the pass, I may just skip back up to top gear if I'm in a "radar safe" zone and I don't need the engine braking of the lower gear to get back down from warp speed.
You can’t be serious here, as it takes 0,5 seconds to push the shifter up one extra gear and you can not in that time “better spend with power on the ground”. Second, I’m always in a “radar safe” zone as there is no such controls in this part of Thailand. And nobody cares about what the speed limits are. Where I live you can’t get a ticket for speeding or parking and you can not even drive in to a control for drinking alcohol because they don’t have any. I actually spoke with a Thai policeman here, asking why they not have that and his answer was “No we can not handle that, we would fill up the jail in 10 minutes”.... ;)
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,127 Posts
Jacob I have a couple of questions . What are you using to judge when to shift? The speedometer, the tachometer (engine speed), the way engine feels, the sound the engine is making, the way traffic is moving around you or a combination, ? If more then one, then what is the one that you use that really causes you to shift?
 

·
Jim's Brother
Joined
·
2,771 Posts
If the intent is to leave the traffic behind you quickly then it's much quicker to hit all the gears. The extra time it takes to "skip" gears can be better spent with the power to the ground when using all of them. I rarely skip gears but if I do then one reason is in a situation where I'm just getting up to posted speed and not trying to gain space from the snails around me but in those situations I normally just short shift through the gears. Another reason is if I dropped down a couple of gears to blip around someone then, after the pass, I may just skip back up to top gear if I'm in a "radar safe" zone and I don't need the engine braking of the lower gear to get back down from warp speed.
You can’t be serious here, as it takes 0,5 seconds to push the shifter up one extra gear and you can not in that time “better spend with power on the ground”. Second, I’m always in a “radar safe” zone as there is no such controls in this part of Thailand. And nobody cares about what the speed limits are. Where I live you can’t get a ticket for speeding or parking and you can not even drive in to a control for drinking alcohol because they don’t have any. I actually spoke with a Thai policeman here, asking why they not have that and his answer was “No we can not handle that, we would fill up the jail in 10 minutes”.... ;)
I am serious. And I take it you are too? If you think that an extra .5 seconds is not that slow then you must not have ever gone out and "raced" another bike to see who's quickest. I guess I was under the impression that you're wanting to be as quick as possible. My bad. Have fun skippy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
676 Posts
Problem with skipping a gear is that it requires the rider to keep the clutch pulled in while clicking the shifter lever TWICE. In that time, engine RPM will drop and the transition to letting out the clutch will be far less smooth... and yes you will be slower.

Done right, an upshift is done with a quick stab of the clutch - smooth as slik - and next to no interruption to power delivery.

In performance riding/driving... smooth is fast.
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top