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Discussion Starter #1
On BMW UK configurator, Sport is £435 more than GT SE.
As far as I can tell only differences are paint and screen size - is there anything else different?
For example, do SE and Sport have same riding position?

Thanks in advance for helping clarify this!
 

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I think you've got it covered. Appearance package only. No other significant variations that I know of. Some of the graphics/colors look pretty good, though, depending on year.
 

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SE possible come with lower LED lights, and Sat Nav install kit
 

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Discussion Starter #5
SE possible come with lower LED lights, and Sat Nav install kit
It is confusing on the BMW website. In the documentation on models, it appears that all three of these items are standard fitting on UK spec GT SE and GT Sport variants. Despite this, the LED lights appear as a £350 option in the configurator for both bikes, and are listed as an element of the "Comfort Plus" pack. Plus, the wording of the £950 Audio system option appears to suggest that GPS wiring is part of that. So maybe, maybe not... :unsure:
 

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If the UK website is anything like the US website, you'll be blown away by pricing. Go to a dealership, most bikes are loaded and cost less than same equipped bikes that you build on the website.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
If the UK website is anything like the US website, you'll be blown away by pricing. Go to a dealership, most bikes are loaded and cost less than same equipped bikes that you build on the website.
Noted, thanks. I'm actually trying to get a handle on second hand prices - am looking for a bike to do some heavy duty sport touring over next couple of years and K1600 is one candidate. But trying to tease out what actually is being offered on market is difficult - as it is hard to work out what spec bikes are based on limited information in ads (even ones on BMW used-bike system).

Looks like a 2017 (Euro 4) or later model with (maybe) Dynamic ESA (I think this became standard in 2019) and TPC, and GPS wiring would suit what I need (I don't care for Audio, Keyless etc, but provided they don't add too much weight they seem harmless).

But recent models seem to have scary depreciation (based on an analysis of about 84 recent listings in UK, K16s of any variety less than four years old depreciate at about £3/day and £0.07 per cummulative mile covered), and relatively high running costs (seems getting a set of tyres to last much beyond a single service interval is doing well, insurance relatively high) so proving a tough sell vs some other options...
 

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Noted, thanks. I'm actually trying to get a handle on second hand prices - am looking for a bike to do some heavy duty sport touring over next couple of years and K1600 is one candidate. But trying to tease out what actually is being offered on market is difficult - as it is hard to work out what spec bikes are based on limited information in ads (even ones on BMW used-bike system).

Looks like a 2017 (Euro 4) or later model with (maybe) Dynamic ESA (I think this became standard in 2019) and TPC, and GPS wiring would suit what I need (I don't care for Audio, Keyless etc, but provided they don't add too much weight they seem harmless).

But recent models seem to have scary depreciation (based on an analysis of about 84 recent listings in UK, K16s of any variety less than four years old depreciate at about £3/day and £0.07 per cummulative mile covered), and relatively high running costs (seems getting a set of tyres to last much beyond a single service interval is doing well, insurance relatively high) so proving a tough sell vs some other options...
If you looked at the cost, depreciation, current recall issue etc, i can understand you may well consider something else but after you ride a K1600, logic goes out the window.
Some models e.g. the B have been restricted and the 2017 (Euro 4 models) and later do not breath as well as the earlier models but you can either get used to or overcome those issues.
Personally, I think the SE is well worth the extra - once you use features like hill assist, central locking, keyless etc it all adds to the luxury of owning.
I would look for <4000 miles - don’t get one near 18,000 miles unless it has had the valve clearances done and spark plugs changed as this is an extremely expensive service.
Earlier models had a few issues but should have al been sorted under warranty but I wouldn’t buy a model older than 2013.
Good luck with your search.
Andy
 

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Steve's Brother
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amorley and gunnert have sport model GT and can help although bikes sold in Europe might be configured differently.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I would look for <4000 miles - don’t get one near 18,000 miles unless it has had the valve clearances done and spark plugs changed as this is an extremely expensive service.
Earlier models had a few issues but should have al been sorted under warranty but I wouldn’t buy a model older than 2013.
Thanks for the hints. I did take a 2017 GT SE out for a test ride a few months ago, and they are indeed fun to ride (at anything above walking pace).

Curiously (at least to me) routine servicing costs for the K1600 average out to be sort-of competitive (tyres not though). Bigger concern is big things going wrong (which seem from my limited research to be unlikely but when they do happen eyewateringly expensive to fix), which seems to imply warranty is a necessary thing.

Another curiousity, is that for a bike sold specifically as a full-on tourer, they don't get ridden very far. The average across all the GT/GT SE/GT Sports in my list is 3154 miles/yr (GT LE's average a tiny bit more - 3315). In 2016 the UK Government estimated that the average motorcyclist in England did 4800 miles (in 440 trips). Seems odd - perhaps there are some monster high mileage bikes out there just not appearing so often in the for-sale columns.

Anyhow, thanks again for the hints. Appreciated and useful.
 

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  1. Thanks for the hints. I did take a 2017 GT SE out for a test ride a few months ago, and they are indeed fun to ride (at anything above walking pace).

    Curiously (at least to me) routine servicing costs for the K1600 average out to be sort-of competitive (tyres not though). Bigger concern is big things going wrong (which seem from my limited research to be unlikely but when they do happen eyewateringly expensive to fix), which seems to imply warranty is a necessary thing.

    Another curiousity, is that for a bike sold specifically as a full-on tourer, they don't get ridden very far. The average across all the GT/GT SE/GT Sports in my list is 3154 miles/yr (GT LE's average a tiny bit more - 3315). In 2016 the UK Government estimated that the average motorcyclist in England did 4800 miles (in 440 trips). Seems odd - perhaps there are some monster high mileage bikes out there just not appearing so often in the for-sale columns.

    Anyhow, thanks again for the hints. Appreciated and useful.
    I think most owners don’t use it for commuting and it’s for pure pleasure, with a lot of aspirational trips in mind.
    I agree with your thoughts around warranty. I am on my 3rd K1600 and my 2nd one I did not renew the warranty but it was always in the back of my mind that if anything went wrong it would likely be expensive to sort. My first K1600 I tried to make a claim on the warranty because the dealer said I needed a new radiator after 3 yrs but they said the warranty did not cover it because it was caused by a blockage! (so make sure you power wash from behind, personally I think it is a bit of a design failure there). After complaining to uk customer services they agreed to cover cost.
 

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KBiK
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My 2015 'GT Sport has the Sakhia Orange colour option which is what I wanted. It also came with the low sport windshield which I love. I bought the OEM top box because I had one on my ST1300 and was used to the additional storage.

I recommend trying out riding the 'GT and the 'GTL to see which riding position you prefer.

These bikes can be ridden any way you decide to ride. That includes as fast and as far. I had a goal to reach 100K miles on KBiK in 5 years but two new grand kids got in the way so I am only at 97K.

As discussed many times here, if you plan to ride fast and far and keep the bike beyond the standard three year, 30K miles (in the USA), the recommendation is to buy an extended warranty.
 
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Q
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Noted, thanks. I'm actually trying to get a handle on second hand prices - am looking for a bike to do some heavy duty sport touring over next couple of years and K1600 is one candidate. But trying to tease out what actually is being offered on market is difficult - as it is hard to work out what spec bikes are based on limited information in ads (even ones on BMW used-bike system).

Looks like a 2017 (Euro 4) or later model with (maybe) Dynamic ESA (I think this became standard in 2019) and TPC, and GPS wiring would suit what I need (I don't care for Audio, Keyless etc, but provided they don't add too much weight they seem harmless).

But recent models seem to have scary depreciation (based on an analysis of about 84 recent listings in UK, K16s of any variety less than four years old depreciate at about £3/day and £0.07 per cummulative mile covered), and relatively high running costs (seems getting a set of tyres to last much beyond a single service interval is doing well, insurance relatively high) so proving a tough sell vs some other options...
A couple things...

Its a 750 pound motorcycle before you pack it full of chit for the road. If your worried about weight you might want to look at a smaller bike now.

Buying a motorcycle is a sound financial decsion and a good place to invest your money.... Said no financial adviser ever..

Im always astounded when I see someone calculate cost of depreciation per day, month or include mpg fuel consumption, insurance rates, service costs etc.. If you look at all of that stuff theres no way in **** you can justify the purchase from a money standpoint.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Im always astounded when I see someone calculate cost of depreciation per day, month or include mpg fuel consumption, insurance rates, service costs etc.. If you look at all of that stuff theres no way in **** you can justify the purchase from a money standpoint.
Interesting. Yet (if my local dealers are to be believed) the most common purchase in UK currently is via some kind of mileage / depreciation based PCP arrangement. If what you say is true, then those financial transactions are poorly informed decisions... (which may explain why they are currently so popular).

All premium bikes are probably uneconomic to own compared to non-bike alternatives (I'm deeply sceptical of the 'bike as an investment' concept). But if you decide to buy one at least part of your decision should be governed by the relative cost of the various bikes that are available to you. Most people have financial constraints - and even if not, other things they can spend their money on beyond bikes so they still have to choose how much to spend on some basis.

I'm not looking to use PCP or similar. But paying cash for one would be by far the largest amount of money I have ever spent on a bike, so some caution should apply.

It was clear very early in my research that most K16's (at least on the market in UK) don't appear to go very far before being sold, and seeing one (even a 2012) with 20K on it quite is unusual. Yet over last 10 years or so I've averaged 10K a year, and probably would do more than this in next couple (hence need for a bike like an K16), which implied I would be putting somewhere between 3-5x typical average mileage on one each year - miles which would quickly push it a long way out of the 'comfort zone' for the market.

So I needed to know if it was better to:
  • buy a new or very low mileage (sub 3K) example and replace it annually or
  • buy an new or very low mileage (sub 3K) example and hold onto it for a few (or many) years and then sell it for whatever it might be worth then or
  • buy a depreciated high mileage / old one and ride it into ground.
Local dealers were remarkably ill-informed (both about running costs and depreciation): which is perhaps unsurprising since most of the bikes they see don't actually get ridden anywhere. So had no choice really other than to get in and crunch the numbers.

It turns (based on data analysed to date) that
  • the Total Cost of Ownership for a fairly new K16 is more than for equivalent bikes from other manufacturers (e.g. 20% more than for a Triumph 1200 Tiger / Trophy)
  • the running costs per mile of the K16 is very slightly less (lower servicing costs more than offset the higher tyre costs) than other bikes looked at
  • the difference is the more rapid calendar depreciation of the K16 (which is more than double that of either of the Triumphs).
Given that another factor in my decision is hopefully avoiding warranty-covered repair costs, having a bike that is capable of being covered by a warranty is also important - which in the BMW's case (if my understanding of current warranty terms is correct) means either
  • a used one owned for less than 2 years from date of purchase or
  • a new one kept by same owner until bike gets to 80K miles.
Based on those two options (in UK at least, based on data I have which may not be completely reliable) the marginally better bet is to buy new and keep for 80K miles. But if you end up selling it within the first three years (e.g. the bike doesn't work way you want, lifestyle factors) buying a nearly new one and replacing every year is in short term a better option.

Bet you didn't really want to know any of that, but maybe parking this here will help someone else at some later date... :)
 

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I understand the desire to understand the TCO for various propositions, but if you’re planning to ride 10k or more miles per year, whatever you buy will be an outlier when you come to sell it. As such, predicting a residual value is a bit like trying to nail jelly to a wall...

Buying anything relatively new and getting out of it again a year later will always be eye-wateringly expensive due to the dealer margin twixt trade and retail, which will drive the private sale prices too.

The lowest TCO proposition is likely to be buying a low mileage bike that's 3+ years old (and has therefore already taken a big depreciation hit) and then running it for at least 4 years. At 7 or 8 years old, the difference in price between a bike with 30k miles on it vs one with 75k miles is not going to be massive.
 

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Bet you didn't really want to know any of that, but maybe parking this here will help someone else at some later date... :)
Well I have to admit your right about that! Its not that I didnt know it but frankly I dont care and heres why..

I ride the motorcycles I want to ride, period. When it came to getting away from my Harley I had tons of choices but only one really turned my crank so thats the one I ride. To be totally honest the only choice my wife has in the purchase is to recommend a color, thats it because I'm the one who has to operate it and I choose what that will be. She loves the GTL BTW, even the color of it.

You will take a beating on any bike you buy, even the older ones. Sometimes even more so on the old ones. I got soaked on my GSA last fall after 2 years of ownership, it is what it is. The trick is to find the bike you want to ride then find the actual bike wether it be new or used and if it fits the budget... buy it because life is too short.
 

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KBiK
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+1 for @Darbinco and others!

I invest in the market.

I have never seen buying a bike, or even a home, as an investment. A home is a place to live and enjoy, hopefully if we are blessed with a great partner and a few kids.

A bike is to ride and enjoy! My 2015 K1600 GTS has 97K miles and would be almost impossible to sell at more than a give away price. But KBiK still looks beautiful (except for a few scars I have inflicted) and rides like the day we joined together out of the showroom. I look forward to riding another 100K on KBiK. I have not seen anything newer on the market from BMW or any other manufacturer that I would consider "investing" in for my pleasure.
 
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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks all for your responses. I guess this thread had drifted a bit from opening question...

The last few comments have all picked up on the comments I've made about the cost of ownership of the bike (e.g.)

+1 for @Darbinco and others!

I have never seen buying a bike, or even a home, as an investment. A home is a place to live and enjoy, hopefully if we are blessed with a great partner and a few kids.
Just to clarify, nothing in what I have said has indicated that I'm viewing this as an 'investment' - agree completely that to view a bike purchase that way is pretty pointless. I buy a bike to ride, and some primary considerations are
  • what you want the bike for (off-road, commuting, touring etc.)
  • whether physically you can get on with it (I'm quite tall, and I find a surprising number of recent bikes are really uncomfortable partly due to fashion right now for 'low' seats and partly due to different fashion for deeply sculpted tank inserts which my legs are too long for so knees hit the 'top' of the cut out rather than fit within it)
  • whether it is fun to ride
Once you've got through those filters, within whatever is left you still need to decide. Within that decision, surely the relative cost of the options open to you has to be a factor to consider.

I'm also greatly encouraged to hear of a 2015 bike with 97K - my last two bikes got to over 80K (Z650B1, Triumph Sprint 955i ST). High mileage use is surely what the K16 is designed for. Just a pity that (in UK at least) very few seem to get the chance to demonstrate this.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
The lowest TCO proposition is likely to be buying a low mileage bike that's 3+ years old (and has therefore already taken a big depreciation hit) and then running it for at least 4 years. At 7 or 8 years old, the difference in price between a bike with 30k miles on it vs one with 75k miles is not going to be massive.
I thought that too to begin with - but data suggests it doesn't actually appear to work out cheaper unless are buying high-ish mileage 2011/12 bikes, but as I keep my bikes for several years, starting with one that is eight or more years old is not in my search pattern right now. It is also going to be difficult to get a warranty on such bikes (one of my purchase criteria) as it would seem BMW dealers in UK rarely sell K16s with 30K+ miles on (I've seen just one in ads since November 2019).
 

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Steve's Brother
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I bought my first K1600 new in 2012 as there really wasn't any used ones at that time. In 2018 I sold that bike (with 92,500 miles) and purchased a low mileage 2016 bike (9,800 miles) it now has 42,000 miles on it and I plan on riding it to at least around the 100,000 mile mark.

Here in the colonies it's easy to put a lot of miles on a bike do to the large distances across this country.

I would suggest finding the newest low mile bike priced comfortably for you and don't even think about how long you plan on keeping it just get on and ride to your hearts content. Like amorley said there isn't anything out there that compares so why not just rack up the miles and smiles.
 
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