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Techmeister
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1,464 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Invisibility Training for Motorcyclists

FortNine runs a youtube channel with close to a million subscribers. I frequently look for rider improvement videos and though the information is often redundant, I use that redundancy to help muscle memory. I stumbled upon his work, and though I wanted to hate him initially I now realize that was because he is better than me.
 

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Steve's Brother
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6,238 Posts
The guy makes some thought provoking videos on a lot of subjects..
 

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Soupa Mod
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2,421 Posts
Nothing seems to work for the assholes to see me!!!!!

Very bright driving lights, hi-viz helmet and vest. Nothing has worked. If I don't see their eyes looking at my eyes I flash my high beam several times. All my lights go on 100% when that happens.

At least twice a year someone pulls into my lane or turns through my lane.
 

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Steve's Brother
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6,238 Posts
Paul,
Don't think that because their eyes are looking in your direction that they actually see you. Defensive driving is the only thing that will save you. I learned a long time ago that when approaching an intersection I don't look at the driver I focus on the vehicles front tire. Rotating movement of the tire indicates, to me, forward movement of the vehicle. The faster the rotation, well you get the idea. This method of defensive driving has become so natural to me that friends have told me they waved from their car and I didn't acknowledge them, that's because I was focusing on the front tire.

Seeing that rotation gives you those milliseconds of time that can get you reacting properly.

I do the same with oncoming traffic sitting in left turn lanes. This simple method has saved my butt too many times to remember them all.
 

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Techmeister
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1,464 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Before adding a duck-ton of lighting... My wife asked me after years of being together why I occasionally zig-zag in my lane - taking the whole lane to do so. I pointed at the old lady looking through me. I often use zig-zagging when riding alone to alert all manner of fauna to my approach. I use my horn only because it also flashes my lights.
 

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Premium Member
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561 Posts
Nothing seems to work for the assholes to see me!!!!!

Very bright driving lights, hi-viz helmet and vest. Nothing has worked. If I don't see their eyes looking at my eyes I flash my high beam several times. All my lights go on 100% when that happens.

At least twice a year someone pulls into my lane or turns through my lane.
I don't know how to break this to you but, you have to drive like they never see you. Always leave 3 car lengths in front of you. Never stay in a cars blind spot. Always anticipate what the assholes are going to do. It's real easy to spot someone wanting to move over on you by the fact they're usually tail gating the car in front of them trying to make room to change lanes. So you back off and let them move over, I usually back off and and flash to pass them to let them know I'm giving them room. At night I'll flash to pass someone at an intersection waiting to turn onto the street I'm driving on just to make sure they know I'm coming. It's a cruel world out there you have to CYA every inch of the way.

Drive Safe.
 

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467 Posts
I almost got hit 3 times coming back from the dealer after the tranny recall. This is with CW Darlas and the Erica/Krista hybrid. I'm not usually a horn guy, but now, I'm going to start using it anytime I see a car at a cross street. Might even use it for potential blind corners out in the country. Maybe if I had laid on it back in Aug, I'd still be riding my 2012.
 
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761 Posts
Cage drivers have too many on-board distractions. In my day, it might be just the cute female alongside; now it's SatNavs, phones, music (ICE), earbuds as well. Most vehicles now have enormously thick A-pillars for roll over protection as well as wide mirrors that together create blind spots, often at least 15 degrees lost viz each side.

Other than exercising extreme caution, there is little us bikers can do in reality, although we try to comfort ourselves with lights/horns/high viz - the fact is even Police riders get knocked off their bikes by myopics despite using all the flashing lights, sirens & high viz gear. Surprisingly, our bikers 6th sense works well most of the time.
 

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Premium Member
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48 Posts
... I like that boy from Fortnine ... and this video is great, also as a frekvent car and cranedriver its a good lesson on how the brain works.

"take two seconds more at the intersection"
 

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Boom
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669 Posts
Sometimes I might be passing someone on the freeway and as I pull alongside them, I notice their head is down and they are engrossed in texting or reading something on their phone. I've stayed along side some of them waiting for them to look up and see me out their passenger window, hoping they might make a realization that they don't know what the heck is going on around them (I don't get too close...they do lane drift, etc). Average time before they look up is 30 seconds to a minute. Traveling at 60 miles per hour, that car will travel 1/2 mile in 30 seconds...imagine asking someone if they thought it was OK to regularly close their eyes for 30 seconds to minute while driving down the road...because that is essentially what they are doing.
 

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Soupa Mod
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2,421 Posts
I don't know how to break this to you but, you have to drive like they never see you. Always leave 3 car lengths in front of you. Never stay in a cars blind spot. Always anticipate what the assholes are going to do. It's real easy to spot someone wanting to move over on you by the fact they're usually tail gating the car in front of them trying to make room to change lanes. So you back off and let them move over, I usually back off and and flash to pass them to let them know I'm giving them room. At night I'll flash to pass someone at an intersection waiting to turn onto the street I'm driving on just to make sure they know I'm coming. It's a cruel world out there you have to CYA every inch of the way.

Drive Safe.
Where did you get that I don't do that? I haven't EVER been hit because I do ride defensively.

Last August coming home from Colorado in Michigan some bitch tried to get in my lane (far right). No one in front of me or behind. Explain that!

On my way to the Des Moine MOA three of us in a row in Iowa in the right lane. Nobody in front of me. Dip **** in a mini-van passed my two friends and then pulled into my lane almost wiping me out. Hi viz pulling a trailer.

It happens twice a year. I am going to buy me one of those get back whips to go with my pirate vest.
 

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Sir Robin’s Lead Minstrel
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1,327 Posts
Nothing seems to work for the assholes to see me!!!!!

Very bright driving lights, hi-viz helmet and vest. Nothing has worked. If I don't see their eyes looking at my eyes I flash my high beam several times. All my lights go on 100% when that happens.

At least twice a year someone pulls into my lane or turns through my lane.
I do the same, and mine work like that too. Default setting on the Denali CanSmart. With all the love that irony has for me, I couldn't get past the idea that right after I first installed all my lights, that I'd have an accident where someone didn't see me, after never having one before on all manner of underlit bikes.
 

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Sir Robin’s Lead Minstrel
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1,327 Posts
I almost got hit 3 times coming back from the dealer after the tranny recall. This is with CW Darlas and the Erica/Krista hybrid. I'm not usually a horn guy, but now, I'm going to start using it anytime I see a car at a cross street. Might even use it for potential blind corners out in the country. Maybe if I had laid on it back in Aug, I'd still be riding my 2012.
Yep. This, too. My wife got stuck having to pillion with me yesterday, and was astonished that in potentially "hairy" intersection with several cars to watch or a guy who didn't appear to see us about to pull out, that I covered the brake, covered if not honked, the horn, and set off the flashers. She's often more careful than me, but in today's world, even out in the country, I'm justifiably paranoid about obliviousness.
 

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Soupa Mod
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2,421 Posts
Yep. This, too. My wife got stuck having to pillion with me yesterday, and was astonished that in potentially "hairy" intersection with several cars to watch or a guy who didn't appear to see us about to pull out, that I covered the brake, covered if not honked, the horn, and set off the flashers. She's often more careful than me, but in today's world, even out in the country, I'm justifiably paranoid about obliviousness.
I also cover my brakes. Learned that important lesson from Duane. I also cover my clutch, high beam and horn approaching heavy intersections or cross type traffic.

It just seems that no matter what we do someone jerk off comes perilously close to penetrating these defenses.
 

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Sir Robin’s Lead Minstrel
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1,327 Posts
Paul,
Don't think that because their eyes are looking in your direction that they actually see you. Defensive driving is the only thing that will save you. I learned a long time ago that when approaching an intersection I don't look at the driver I focus on the vehicles front tire. Rotating movement of the tire indicates, to me, forward movement of the vehicle. The faster the rotation, well you get the idea. This method of defensive driving has become so natural to me that friends have told me they waved from their car and I didn't acknowledge them, that's because I was focusing on the front tire.

Seeing that rotation gives you those milliseconds of time that can get you reacting properly.

I do the same with oncoming traffic sitting in left turn lanes. This simple method has saved my butt too many times to remember them all.
I also remember a lesson from a British guy doing an online motorcycle safety video. Too much to consider at an intersection with 3-9 cars, any of which could potentially hit you, but with one vehicle or two, if you look to see whether you can see their background moving relative to their vehicle as you approach, they can see the same with you, and are thus more likely to see you, but if you're far enough away and coming at them on a road which is gunbarrel straight, they're more unlikely to see you, so weave back and forth within your lane, since we're all genetically programmed to notice that type of movement more than "headed at us in a direct line".

Not remotely "the" solution or anything, and the device-addled and distracted won't notice anyway, but it IS another tool to put in the ol' defensive riding tool box.
 

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Steve's Brother
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6,238 Posts
if you look to see whether you can see their background moving relative to their vehicle as you approach,
I don't subscribe to this method of determining if the other vehicle is moving. That may work if you are sitting still but as you move down the road the world around their vehicle is constantly changing, even if they don't move.

That's why watching the front tire for rotation seems like the best way "for me" to determine if they are on the move. Try it then get yourself to do it ALL the time.
 

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At night I'll flash to pass someone at an intersection waiting to turn onto the street I'm driving on just to make sure they know I'm coming.
In the UK, flashing the headlight would be regarded as an invitation to pull out, possibly resulting in the direct opposite of a SMIDSY (Sorry Mate I Did Not See You)

That's why watching the front tire for rotation seems like the best way "for me" to determine if they are on the move.
This ^^^. Also taught to me when learning to drive HGV. You'll see the wheel rotate before you notice the car moving.

Joe
 

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Premium Member
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273 Posts
In the UK, flashing the headlight would be regarded as an invitation to pull out,.......
I agree with Joe on this, bizarrely though, this kind of goes against our own highway code....

"111
Never assume that flashing headlights is a signal inviting you to proceed. Use your own judgement and proceed carefully."


We all flash to let others out of a junction though. 🤔
 

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Premium Member
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67 Posts
I've found that my happy spot is to ride just a bit faster than traffic is going. Cars tend to bunch up and if I can ride through the bunch then I typically find myself on my own. Of course there are places where this isn't feasible. I'm also very comfortable sharing a lane (years of riding in California enforced that skill) so if someone comes over it's not a big deal to me. I know that I'm better at seeing cars than cars are at seeing me which is why I concentrate on my own actions and don't get hung up on what they are doing. I don't think I've ever once used my high beams or horn to get someone's attention because that's taking away from my ability to get through the situation.

james
 
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