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Oil Viscosity 5W-40 or 10W-40

30K views 64 replies 27 participants last post by  Rock  
#1 · (Edited)
Dealer workshop uses 10W-40 synthetic oil, I guess it's the one size fits all option, especially when they order in drums they don't want to mess with different varieties.

But now I can change it, would it be better to stick with 10W-40? Considering when I go back for major services they will put in 10W-40 again.

Or change to 5W-40 to see if it makes any difference? My understanding is that they are the same at operating temperature, 5W is better for cold start (it's not that cold here).

Or doesn't really matter? Just get whatever is accessible at a good price.

P.S. Dealer uses Shell Advance Ultra (fully synthetic), I plan to use Mobil 1 or Castrol Power 1 Racing (both fully synthetic).
 
#3 ·
6 of one, half a dozen of another. After getting 3 oil samples analyzed 40,000 miles ago I only use 10w40 AmsOil Metric.

Duane
 
#4 ·
Why is the cold viscosity important? These are motorcycles and not snowmobiles.
 
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#5 ·
@djfalkenstein , I'm "thinking" the '5' viscosity helps with cold start emissions testing.

Duane
 
#12 ·
Why do all the back yard mechanics think they know better than the engineers that design and test our engines. With the extremely close tolerances in modern engines the need for a lighter weight oil to seep into the bearing gaps on start up is very important. I’m staying with the recommendations shown in my owners manual. You can’t go wrong by doing that.
 
#13 ·
I'm an engineer. I'm also an engineer in a huge, global company. You can never imagine how many times my "better" judgement is overruled by politics with decisions made many, many levels away from me.

Maybe the engineers got to spec out the "perfect" oil or maybe someone wanted to push the HP numbers up 10% for marketing efforts. Or, maybe they wanted to help their buddy at the oil company sell that blend. Or, maybe they chose that as a compromise to performance, wear, availability, and cost. There is no "perfect" in an all-for-one application.
 
#14 ·
There was a huge discussion regarding 40 weight and the desired 50 weight for hot weather on the Ducati side. Countless pages of reading deciding who was knowledgable led me to the conclusion that Ducati designed for 40 weight, that 50 weight increased rotational effort inside the engine, thus losing power. This is why I noted that 50 weight robs horsepower.

As for the initial 5w or 10w weight for start-up, I have concluded that one could even look at 0w. In reality, my preference is to closely look at viscosity test results because there we see what's going on more than the label oil weights.

My money for BMW oil will be with 10w-40. People here know which brand.

There is synthetic, and then there is synthetic, then there is Shell Advantec, which is made from natural gas. Good performance and a good use for all that Saudi natural gas that used to be burned off. In the USA it is legal to call certain refined dino oil synthetic. Not my preference in "synthetic."
 
#15 ·
When considering a heavier weight oil bear in mind that it will result in lower flow, which might have very little impact on the lubrication properties, but can impede the effectiveness of the oil cooler and the wet clutch.

I'm sticking with the OEM recommended oil specifications with regards the 40 weight API SL / JASO MA2, but see no harm going with the 10W40 particularly in places like Australia.
 
#23 ·
I stick to what the manufacturer specifies. There are a lot of technical details with motor oils. Synthetic is a must for me, but the proof of the pudding is in the standards the manufacturer names in the owners manual. That is important today because of the fan-dangled seals, etc, to handle the fan-dangled alloys German motors and drive-trains use. You can actually damage conventional engines if using the Castrol 0w-20 Titanium oil for turbo engines. The oil was specifically designed with Castrol for the mini displacement, high-output, turbo engines of the VW group.
My 2015 GT specifies:



SAE 5W-40, API SL / JASO MA2, Additives (e.g. molybdenum-based) are not permissible because they can attack coated components of the engine, BMW Motorrad recommends BMW Motorrad ADVANTEC Ultimate oil.

ADVANTEC is a new generation of snake oil.
 
#24 ·
My employer creates and manufactures the additives that are blended with base oils to create the lubricants that we find in various retail venues and as factory fill lubricants in millions of cars and trucks all over the world. The additives for automobile and diesel engine oils require testing required to meet API standards, and that testing is both complex and expensive. The standards for motorcycle engine lubricants are different, and for good reason.

I spent 18 years formulating axle and transmission lubricants, which have different needs and chemistry, but only a floor away from the engine oil developers.

As a few on the thread have commented, the "winter" designation of 5 or 10 is of value only in cold climates. The main viscosity grade designation of 40 is the more important number.

The prohibition of "molybdenum-based" additives in the BMW standard is wise. There are a number of very good moly-containing lubricant components, sold by reputable manufacturers, and created by chemists to do wonderful things in very particular situations. But, if BMW says "no" then it is important to follow that guidance. Chemistry is mysterious. Certain compounds are very attracted to metal surfaces, and may out-compete other compounds to the detriment of the hardware. Formulations that bring in components, structures, or elements that upset the balance of extreme pressure protection, wear protection, friction control, friction durability, oxidation resistance, etc. will do more harm than good. Many of us have seen the "snake oil" testing favored by the infomercials or youtube generation, and rightly have skepticism. One such substance you all may remember is when teflon was thought to be good for lubricants. It is slippery, don't you know, so it must be perfect as a lubricant component. Just pour some in. More is better. Not always.

My approach, as an experienced formulator, is to trust the OEM products. What formulators realize after a few years of trying is that you don't know what you don't know. An engine oil or axle lubricant might meet the general industry standards. It might even go beyond those standards. But, most often the formulators have limited access to the really important tests performed by the OEM on their vehicles. For instance, there is a desert durability test in NW Arizona, right near where the aliens landed and a small museum exists today. (No, I am not kidding. I have been there and there is a museum.) All the axle lubricant tests known to the industry can be passed, and yet the desert durability test failed. That test is secret to the OEM, and requires certain chemistry in the lubricant. The standard industry tests do not require that chemistry. Of course that OEM-approved chemistry passes the standard tests with ease. A desert durability test failure is catastrophic -- metal parts break. So, absent the knowledge that a lubricant has actually been tested by the OEM, I choose to trust the OEM-branded engine oil for my K1600. Doubtless other products can and do work, and many on our forum trust those products. Being risk averse, I try to avoid the potential failures of formulations that were not officially evaluated by the OEM.

What some OEMs do, in the interest of the end user, is to ensure that oils meeting a certain specification will work. Car engine oils, truck engine oils, axle lubes, all have the potential of meeting OEM tests, and most often the OEM designs the hardware to work with the oils passing the standard tests. Here BMW does give that API SL and JASO MA2 guidance, which is sufficient to define the oil performance.

Again, there are many engine oils that are not OEM-sanctioned that do perfectly fine. The formulations may even do amazing things, like reduce the clunkiness of the transmission shifting, or have lower wear metals as measured by the test labs to whom we can send our samples. I am NOT criticizing any other products, or suggesting that anyone who uses them is making a mistake! I'm just explaining how I approach lubricant choices, based on personal professional experience.
 
#32 ·
Here BMW does give that API SL and JASO MA2 guidance, which is sufficient to define the oil performance.

Again, there are many engine oils that are not OEM-sanctioned that do perfectly fine. The formulations may even do amazing things, like reduce the clunkiness of the transmission shifting, or have lower wear metals as measured by the test labs to whom we can send our samples.
My preference is to start with the OEM specification and then select from the qualifying lubricants which top the ASTM performance tests.

While many use price as a consideration, my interest is availability & performance. Lubricants and filters are cheap insurance.

With my current BMW, the evaluation is whether to change the oil more frequently than the schedule requires. Haven't decided yet.
 
#26 ·
Manufacturer did test the bike in many weather condition before they actually release the bike to the market, 5w40 is good in all range of condition, but you can also use 10w40 and 10w50 as well if you in hot climate area, unless you are in -30C zone.
In hot and cold climates the bikes normal operating temperature is the same, controlled by the thermostat, so along with many others in this thread I'd advise against using anything higher than 40.
 
#30 ·
The Rotella engine oil is laden with a component called "detergent." The amount of detergent in this DIESEL engine oil is much higher than a gasoline engine oil. It chemically reacts with acids formed as the engine operates to neutralize them. Detergents also affect dynamic friction, most often raising the level of sliding friction for any clutch present in the vehicle.
 
#37 ·
Actually, I think there have been a number of engine replacements here. I have to wonder if lubrication played a part in any of these? Coking fouling rings?

Anyway, I think that most are keen to do the best we can with maintenance. Thus this forum, and many others, have threads where people go round and round about oil, filtration and lubrication in general.
 
#43 ·
Actually, I think there have been a number of engine replacements here. I have to wonder if lubrication played a part in any of these? Coking fouling rings?
I wonder if LSPI (Low Speed Pre Ignition) has played a roll in any of the ring land failures. LSPI has become a major issue in the auto world, particularly in direct injected gasoline engines. LSPI catastrophic failures seem to be caused by inferior motor oils. So much so, that LSPI protection was the impetus behind GM's Dexos1, Gen 2 motor oil specification.
 
#44 ·
LSPI is now called "stochastic pre-ignition" or SPI, because after many hours of research it was determined that the pre-ignition occurs at various speeds, and is "random." I suppose someone had to use a word they learned in statistics class rather than call it "random pre-ignition?" We have a special engine test that can "find" SPI, but the method does not simulate typical engine operation, but conditions that can and do create SPI. Anyway, it continues to be a major concern of everyone in the automotive world.

Regarding the OEM changing the oil recommendation, from model year to model year, rest assured that such recommendations are not casually made.
 
#46 ·
Amsoil recommends the 10W40. I am sticking with what has work well for me for many years. It is much better to ride a motorcycle that talk about oil.
This is interesting, how can amsiol recommend 10w40, I think I'd go with the weight recommend by the engine manufacturer, rather than someone trying to sell oil, amsiol for me has been bad luck, every time I use it my cars get totaled, so amsiol is the last oil I can use

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