So the 20S has this problem and the 10s didn't?

 

I've had issues with much the same thing. The 20s is reluctant to take phone audio from the Nav IV. The same issue where it appears connected to the bike but there is no sound. The new SR10 module linked via second pairing seems to work fine though. I need to get some real world miles done and see how it works.

 

Set up I am using, a bmw communicator in my system 6 connected to bike, to nav 4 and to Sena 20s in my wifes arai (previously paired) connects semi automatically after pressing the centre Sena 20s once, after which the communicator says " devices connected" and then the centre button on the 20s is pressed again to talk.No need to go though universal pairing option.
Sound quality is clear on the move, but a little echo'y when stopped. Overall, expensive but impressed.

 

Hi, Thank you for inviting me Newton. I would be glad to try and answer an many questions as I can here on the forum.

The SMH10 does have this problem but it isn't as consistent as we saw on Newton's bike. And certainly no where as bad that has been reported with the 1200.

For the 20S with the k1600 and among other issues me and newton found/confirmed has been reported hopefully an update will roll out soon. This is the best news I can offer at this moment.

 

Welcome Wahyit! There is a LOT of interest in the 20S on this forum. Many of us have been waiting anxiously for this awesome new product only to discover that many of the old issues with pairing remain...

You were most kind and helpful with the issue I had with my brand new 20S and issued an RMA. I FEDEXd my new unit to Sena support and await the repair.


Prior to the fatal problem I developed with the unit failing to stay powered-up (and refusing the firmware upgrade), I experienced similar issues described by Sailingnuts. My workaround....about a third of the time, if I waiting long enough, turned the K16 bike stereo Bluetooth off (turned on the loudspeaker from the toggle wheel) then reenabled, the sound would startup again in the 20S. The other two-thirds of the time, I had to go into the bikes Audio and start the pairing process again. It wouldn't actually complete a new pairing but rather, as explained by sailingnuts, it would cause the systems to relink.

 

I don't know if this is helpful but I am pretty confident, based on quite a bit of testing that I did with another non-BMW Bluetooth manufacturer, that when the headset appears to be successfully paired but you have no sound it is because the Nav is not correctly releasing its communication channel with the headset. The Nav can sometimes generate signals which the headset interprets as A2DP even though it should only be HDP. This places the link with the Nav above the priority for the A2DP link with the bike. To confirm this experience, when the headset appears to be successfully linked to the bike but you hear nothing, remove and power down the Nav. You may find that you return to hearing the signals from the bike.

Just some of my past experiences before I finally purchased the BMW Communicators for my wife and me.

 

Similar experience here once in a while. My solution is to turn the speakers on and off which reestablishes the connection to the Sena 10 and I can hear BMW audio.

 

Is anyone having trouble pairing things to the "2nd Phone Pairing" ? It seems to be very fussy about what it will accept, but according to the manual, it should accept any "Hands Free Profile" (HFP) device, but it won't. I have a Chinese 4.3" GPS fitted into the factory cradle with better specs (and cheaper!) than the BMW Garmin device, but it, and other devices I have tried that have a HFP, will not pair! Even their own SR10 won't pair in "Mobile Phone" mode, but will in "Bluetooth Headset mode" Could people try to pair other GPS devices as "2nd Mobile Phone Pairing" to confirm this?

 

... Even their own SR10 won't pair in "Mobile Phone" mode, but will in "Bluetooth Headset mode"...

I have a SMH10 and SR10, and the SR10 only pairs with the SMH10 via HFP (hands-free, ie bluetooth headset, profile). I suspect this is by design, as the SR10 is a mono device and does not support A2DP (stereo profile). I'd expect the same behavior with the 20S and SR10.

 

Paired to my Nav IV and bike with no problems at all and it doesn't drop the bike connection at all, phone not connected simply because my carrier is bloody hopeless and not worth worrying about so bike went on first then Nav, all good.

 

My point is Sena claim 1 x A2DP and 2 x HFP devices, my 20s does not seem to want to pair with a "second" HFP device. 1st device connection and pairing is ok. ie, A2DP to bike bluetooth audio(BMW) is fine, and mobile phone connected as HFP device works ok. All the 1st phone pairing scenarios work ok, its when I try for example "case study 1" (p48) or "case study 6" (p51) that I'm having problems. If you look at this link List of Bluetooth profiles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia about bluetooth profiles, you will see there are quite a few. Now HFP and HSP are not the same, Sena claim 1 A2DP and 2 HFP devices, but a second HFP device will not pair on the "2nd Mobile Phone Pairing". Maybe it is infact HSP? I'm trying to get Sena help to clarify it for me, just wanting to know if others get the same result concerning the 2nd phone pairing, I can pair a old Plantronics Voyager Pro, and and old Samsung flip phone to 2nd phone pair, so it does pair some things, but not my GPS unit that definitely has HFP.

 

I agree that in the Manual it does show that and that is completely misleading, I am trying to figure that out through my company network to understand why that was put in like that. And it will need to be changed. However I have not seen any marketing material that suggest multiple A2DP connections.

Pairing on the other hand is possible but you can't have them working at the same time.

 

Riddle me this:
With my 20S, I paired bike audio to Sena, disabled Bluetooth on the NAV V, and used phone2 for windows8 phone to Sena (no media from phone to Sena).

This provided bike audio, including voice over NAV instructions (ipod in cubby hole and Sirius Xm) I guess all through the bike>Sena Bluetooth. Note I specifically did not connect to the NAV yet I had voice over. Occassionally I would need to MUTE UNMUTE the NAV voice but each time my music would automagically decrease in volume and Id hear the Nav....

 

With my 20S, I paired bike audio to Sena, disabled Bluetooth on the NAV V, and used phone2 for windows8 phone to Sena (no media from phone to Sena).

That's working just as deigned.

Stereo audio comes in over the BMW A2DP Bluetooth connection. The GPS is hard-wired to the bike, so you also get GPS instructions over the same A2DP audio stream. That's why it works on Radio, Satellite, iPod/USB, or Aux. If I want GPS but no audio, I just switch to Aux mode (with nothing plugged in).

Your phone can either be paired directly to the helmet headset using HFP (which is what you're doing), or it can be paired to the GPS, and then the GPS paired to the helmet. This allows you to see incoming/outgoing calls on the GPS screen, read your address book, make, answer, and hang up calls, etc.

It does require the GPS unit to be on and in range during calls though. I was talking to my wife as I pulled into a gas station, and kept talking as I filled up. When I went in to pay (with the iPhone in my pocket) the call failed. It took me a second to figure out that I had just walked out of GPS Bluetooth range . . .

 

Hello Wahyit, I haven't stated that I expect 2 x A2DP devices to connect at once, only 2 x HFP devices as stated in the manual, specifically "case study 6" is what I am trying to achieve.

 

Wahyit, (thanks for the video and tutorial)

Please provide specific sequence to pair for this common K1600 GT/GTL setup:
Sena 20S
BMW Audio (to include all standard input sources, cubby-hole ipod, Sirius, AM/FM radio, GPS voice instructions)
BMW NAV IV/V (need separate pairing or just use thru BMW audio?)
Phone (Android or IOS) Please explicitly state if music can be used from the phone if using BMW audio
Intercom to second Sena helmet
Shared music during intercom, with second helmet.

 

I don't have a k1600 haha but I will try to see what I can come up with, maybe ill get Salingnut to bring his bike back again. So i'll have to try and come up with something.

 

Today was the first chance to really shake down my new system. By the first stop, it was apparent that the 20s and the Nav IV don't like each other. I reset all my pairings and by accident reset the factory defaults on the 20s. Instead of pairing my IPhone 5s to the Nav IV, then to the headset, I disabled the Bluetooth on the Nav IV and connected my iPhone 5s to the first pairing, then the bikes stereo to the first pairing. The second pairing was then connected to my new SR10 that has my 2 way radio connected to it. I then connected the intercom to my regular wingmans new 20s. Success. The 20s seems to be reconnecting every time to all the devices, and everything seems to work as intended. I turned everything off and on a couple of times with success. The last couple of days running with the Bluetooth on the Nav IV have been a PITA. Ditching the GPS seems to have fixed the issue. Not quiet how I expected a $1000 worth of new Sena gear to work, but for the moment I'll accept that it's working. Thankfully I only use the GPS for point to point not turn by turn navigation, otherwise I'd be sending the lot back to the Aussie importer and asking for a refund. It surely doesn't seem to work first time, every time straight out of the box as intended. Better than the alternatives, but so far not perfect.

 

Brick...it may be that the NAV IV voice instructions are merely muted. Since everything else is working, from the nav screen tough the speaker icon to mute and unmute. Mine consistently connects muted, but works through the BMW audio if 'reset' by muting/unmuting.

 

It's audible. It's that while connected it seems to either constantly reconnect, which in turn makes the bike audio drop out. I also struggle to get it to re-route phone calls to the helmet. More often than not I have to pull over and ring someone back. Once I took the Nav IV out of the equation it suddenly seemed to work flawlessly. For the moment I'll use the GPS for tracking my IBA style rides. For the once in a blue moon that I need point to point, I have a great app that is has up to date road maps, unlike the Garmin ones.

Still would have been nice if it all worked properly though.

 

WahyitC-
I'm doing ok with my sena 20... I haven't used it as much as I want yet, but wanted to drop a quick note... The headphone port has an issue like the original iphones... my Sensephonics don't seat all the way. I'm either going to shave it or get the little extensions. To be clear, the headphone plug doesn't seat all the way into the headphone port as there is interference around the edge. (its really close tho)

WL

 

the earbud port can fit a 3 or 4 pole 3.5mm plug on most standard earbuds, the edge seal on the 20S was done dilbertaly to try to keep a water resistant seal

 

Can anyone recommend a source for the Sena 20s. Went to their website for dealers, online store, etc. Either they don't have them or on back order.

 

Can anyone recommend a source for the Sena 20s. Went to their website for dealers, online store, etc. Either they don't have them or on back order.

shiping 2-4 weeks. I'd think that's optimistic.

Sena 20S Motorcycle Bluetooth Communication System - 20S - Powersports

 

boxes of boxes came to the local dealer.


will be popping by to get the dual set..


:clap::clap:

 

My example of occasional muted GPS is when I do not pair the NAV V at all but rather pair only to the bikes audio. The GPS is hardwired into the bikes audio, so it works for me to pair Sena to GTL audio and Sena to phone (no media). GPS voice commands are overplayed on music. I seem to have problems with my win8 phone playing nicely with the BMW audio but if I us the phone HFP instead of A2D2, it seems to work reliably.

 

Riding about today, I started once again having an issue with the "media" pairing with the bike. If I stopped somewhere, sometimes the bike showed it was paired and the headset told me it was paired, but no sound. The afternoon I noticed the GPS had decided to pair itself again by re-enabling Bluetooth by itself. As soon as I disabled the GPS's Bluetooth, no more problems.

I think I'm going to delete all the pairings and start again, this time not pairing the GPS at all. Pity, cause I thought this unit was going to solve this problem.

 

I don't see in the manual any mention of VOX intercom, is that feature gone?

 

VOX still exists to answer phone calls and initiate Intercom. Voice dialing is also there via your Smartphone. Voice commands are also available.

 

Started to play with the 20s and my GTL. I get the rider headset working for phone, music, intercom and gps. For pillion headset I get the intercom working. Cannot get the music sharing to work. Is it possible to have the pillion hear the GPS instructions and if so how? Can it be done without getting the SM10?

It looks like we will be autocomming to the MOA rally since my wife (pillion) hearing the gps is something we like to have.

BTW To everyone going, stay vertical and enjoy the ride!

 

Brick was up to something...

I tried last night to turn the bike on, wait for initialization, turn the Bluetooth on the Navigator V to OFF, turn the SENA 20s on, wait for the SENA 20s to pair with everything, Music from the bike came on and then I went back and turned the GPS Bluetooth back on. Repeated the procedure several times and it always works.
There is a conflict between the HDP on the GPS and the A2DP on the Bike that is solved by turning the GPS off and then back on.

 

Brick was up to something...

I tried last night to turn the bike on, wait for initialization, turn the Bluetooth on the Navigator V to OFF, turn the SENA 20s on, wait for the SENA 20s to pair with everything, Music from the bike came on and then I went back and turned the GPS Bluetooth back on. Repeated the procedure several times and it always works.
There is a conflict between the HDP on the GPS and the A2DP on the Bike that is solved by turning the GPS off and then back on.

I find the same scenerio with the SMH10's. But once everything is working it all seams to reconnect at will though. But, yes, when pairing disconnect the GPS, connect to the bike, then power up gps and pair there. Works everytime. I use the same paring sequence as my BMW Comms.
Music sharing works fine once everything is paired. I do find that when stopping etc...I have to reset music sharing with the wife's helmet just about everytime. But does share.

 

Hi Pfiedler,
I have been in constant contact with Wahyit, Customer Support at SENA. They are already aware of this conflict and probably working on it. Wahyit is also monitoring this Forum. At least we have a way to make it work now.
SENA will be at San Jose BMW on Thursday, 6:30PM, for Demo day.

 

Thanks, I didn't realize the VOX adjustment had a fancy new name.

 

Hi Sailingnuts:

Thanks for the update! I noticed that Wahyit (from SENA) is now on this forum which is terrific and I'm sure appreciated by many as the SENA product line has become a real force for B to B communications. Seems to be a software/firmware issue. SENA has been great about attending to such matters in the past and I expect they will continue to do so going forward. With a brand new device, one expects there to be a few bugs early on.

I REALLY like the 20S, having been using the SMH10-B for a number of years. The new device has some very cool features. How has your FM reception been? I find it fairly weak in my area (just north of Boston, MA). I'm sure that too will be enhanced in time.

Thank you again for the reply and update. I will keep an eye on the forum to see if there are any updates to correct this situation. I also hope BMW is paying some attention to this as well!!

Ride safe and I hope you're enjoying beautiful weather in the San Jose area! Pretty nice in Boston this time of year as well.

Best,

Peter

 

My configuration :

1. K1600 pairing with sena 20S : phone selective pairing
2. Iphone 5 pairing with Nav V
3. Nav V pairing with sena 20S : phone pairing
4. I also pair the sena SR10 with the 20S : second phone pairing
5. Pillion SMH-10 pairing with 20S : intercom pairing

When I restart the bike all pairings are always OK. I don't have the shut off the bike radio or Nav V to have everything get paired well. So this configuration works well for me. Maybe this will help some people to have everything get paired well.

Sorry for my english, It's not perfect.

Kind regards from Belgium

Kim

 

Hi Kim,
Do you listen music via the Bike system? Does it come on in Stereo or Mono?
Are you able to use Siri or Voice to dial someone?
Do you answer the phone only on the Navigator or are you able to answer (pressing the phone button) on SENA 20s too?