[Victor 60]

As many have read, I find no real benefit in choosing any oil based on price.

Without a test of the oil for elements present (moly, calcium, phosphorus, etc) one cannot know if MoS2 is present. Worse, glycerol monooleate, a common friction modifier, will not show up without a couple more tests.

Let’s say you spend $60 on oil every 6000 miles. BMW branded Motorrad. Is it worth $10 or $20 to risk getting FM embedded in the clutch discs? You can’t afford the chemical tests to be sure.

 

[Victor 60]

By the way, if a lubricant claims "meets the requirements of..." but is not actually certified, there are reasons. Financial, complexity, time for testing (sometimes years!), relationships with OEMs, etc. On a $35K motorcycle, you can make your own decision, but again, risk averse engineer Chip chooses OEM lubricants whenever possible.

 

[Victor 60]

And, regarding Amsoil, this company does not rebrand lubricants. I have met Mr. A, in person, some years ago, when he visited my employer. Amsoil is devoted to high performance lubricants. They formulate the lubricant, choosing additive packages, components, and base oils on their own. They choose the blending facility, the packaging facility, and ensure quality to their standards.

 

[Prince]

In all my years of being an auto enthusiast I have yet to hear of an engine oil related failure.

I am not talking about problems such as the zinc related failures of a couple of decades ago that was caused by the reduction of zinc content in oil.

 

[KL51212]

To be clear:
MA2 has nothing to do with catalysts. JALOS split the former JASO MA spec into two sub-segments, each narrower than what used to be MA. MA2 is the 'highest friction' of the two, and MA1 is a bit 'slipperier.' MB is 'slipperier' still.

There are 3 indices that are measured for the frictional properties of the spec-- Dynamic friction index (DFI), static friction index (SFI), and stop-time index (STI). An oil these days will be MA rated if all three indices fall within MA, but within a combination of the MA1 and MA2 sub-categories (perhaps it falls within MA2 for STI and DFI, but within MA1 for SFI, as an example). That's the only difference between MA1, MA2, and just MA.

All of this is covered explicitly in the document I linked up the thread.

 

[Prince]

All I know is what I have read ... not arguing because I dunno:

 

[1004ron]

Because I lack the expert subject knowledge that @Victor 60 has, I'll take his advice and stick with oils that were specifically formulated for our bikes and not risk some additive in car engine oil causing issues.

The only oil that I know of that doesn't specify "for motorcycles" that is JASO MA2 is Shell Rotella T6

9c93ab72-b0cb-4706-96bf-9f5be09e507a

totachi.com

JASO MA2 – This specification was introduced in 2006 for modern motorcycle engines. As well as being a higher standard of oil the JASO-MA2 approval means the oil is suitable for use in bikes with catalytic converts in the exhaust system.

 

[1004ron]

For $25 more you get the oil the manufacturer recommends plus an oil filter and crush ring.

Amazon.com: Bmw Motorrad Official Oil Change Kit: K1600 : Automotive

Buy Bmw Motorrad Official Oil Change Kit: K1600: Engine Oil - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Not bad, but do you know what oil is being rebranded in that deal?

My K1600 owners manual recommends Castrol Power 1.

View attachment 182395

Amsoil is not a re branded oil , Amsoil is the manufacturer of the metric motorcycle oil. A re branded oil would be one that is sold with the manufacturer of the vehicle but not produced by them. Case in point Yamalube sold at Yamaha dealers. We all know or should know that Yamaha is not in the oil producing business.

Huh, I made no mention or reference to Amsoil - did you mistakenly quote my post?

 

[Blupupher]

Because I lack the expert subject knowledge that @Victor 60 has, I'll take his advice and stick with oils that were specifically formulated for our bikes and not risk some additive in car engine oil causing issues.

The only oil that I know of that doesn't specify "for motorcycles" that is JASO MA2 is Shell Rotella T6

9c93ab72-b0cb-4706-96bf-9f5be09e507a

totachi.com

Again, there is no Rotella oil that is JASO MA/MA2 certified.
Rotella T4 15w-40 and T6 5w-40 bottles say "Meets performance requirements of ... JASO MA/MA2"
It does not carry a JASO certification number nor is it listed on the JASO site.

Am I being nitpicky, sure, you can call it that.
Rotella T6 has been used by I dare say hundreds of thousands of people in their motorcycle for millions of miles with no oil related issues, but it is not a JASO certified oil.
Heck, there are a few "motorcycle" marketed oils that are not JASO certified either, including the"Motorcycle oil" the OP posted, it just says "Meets or Exceeds JASO MA2 standards", no JASO MA2 stamp, cert number, and not on the JASO list.

Just curious what the back of the BMW oil bottle says?
It is not on the JASO list (I know it is made by Shell, but there is no Shell 5w-40 oil on the JASO list).

 

[Gixxerific]

I have been using Cannabis oil not for any performance reasons. I just like the smell. Though the trains of VW busses that always follow me are unnerving.

 

[1004ron]

Need to take a few oils off my list that aren't certified JASO MA2.

Amazon.com: Motul 7100 4T 5W40 100% Synthetic Engine Oil 4 Liters (104087) : Automotive
Meets: : API SL/SH/SG and JASO MA


Amazon.com: Castrol Power1 4T 5W-40 Full Synthetic Motorcycle Oil, 1 Quart, Pack of 6 : Automotive

Exceeds Industry Specifications - JASO MA2 standards


Amazon.com: Liqui Moly 4T Synthetic 5W-40 Race 4-Liter : Automotive

• Specifications and Approvals: API, SM, ACEA A3-04, JASO, MA2 - Certified?

Edit:

Can't confirm if Amsoil Metric is certified.
10W-40 Synthetic Metric Motorcycle Oil | MCF - AMSOIL
g3348.pdf (amsoilcontent.com)

Use AMSOIL 10W-40 Synthetic Metric Motorcycle Oil in Can-Am,* Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, BMW,* Triumph* and other motorcycles where 10W-40 motorcycle oil is required. Recommended for transmissions requiring an API GL-1 fluid. Not recommended where an API GL-4 or GL-5 gear oil is required. • API SM, JASO MA/MA2

 

[Gunnert]

Seems there are never ending and always reoccurring discussions/debates about oil. The conversations include words/phrases like meets, exceeds industry standards, and certified. I may pay a few dollars more but I know AmsOil Metric exceeds all K1600 requirements.

Duane

 

[M1A1Commander]

Need to take a few oils off my list that aren't certified JASO MA2.

Amazon.com: Motul 7100 4T 5W40 100% Synthetic Engine Oil 4 Liters (104087) : Automotive
Meets: : API SL/SH/SG and JASO MA


Amazon.com: Castrol Power1 4T 5W-40 Full Synthetic Motorcycle Oil, 1 Quart, Pack of 6 : Automotive

Exceeds Industry Specifications - JASO MA2 standards


Amazon.com: Liqui Moly 4T Synthetic 5W-40 Race 4-Liter : Automotive

• Specifications and Approvals: API, SM, ACEA A3-04, JASO, MA2 - Certified?

Edit:

Can't confirm if Amsoil Metric is certified.
10W-40 Synthetic Metric Motorcycle Oil | MCF - AMSOIL
g3348.pdf (amsoilcontent.com)

Use AMSOIL 10W-40 Synthetic Metric Motorcycle Oil in Can-Am,* Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, BMW,* Triumph* and other motorcycles where 10W-40 motorcycle oil is required. Recommended for transmissions requiring an API GL-1 fluid. Not recommended where an API GL-4 or GL-5 gear oil is required. • API SM, JASO MA/MA2

That Amazon info is incorrect. Shocking, I know. I can't stand the French on much, but I'm a fan of Motul. The link below is to their site and MA2 is indicated.

https://azupim01.motul.com/media/motulData/DO/base/7100_4t_5w-40_en_fr_motul_20210305.pdf

 

[TPadden]

..but I'm a fan of Motul.

Me too; it's the prettiest!

Tom

 

[Blupupher]

Need to take a few oils off my list that aren't certified JASO MA2.

Amazon.com: Motul 7100 4T 5W40 100% Synthetic Engine Oil 4 Liters (104087) : Automotive
Meets: : API SL/SH/SG and JASO MA


Amazon.com: Castrol Power1 4T 5W-40 Full Synthetic Motorcycle Oil, 1 Quart, Pack of 6 : Automotive

Exceeds Industry Specifications - JASO MA2 standards


Amazon.com: Liqui Moly 4T Synthetic 5W-40 Race 4-Liter : Automotive

• Specifications and Approvals: API, SM, ACEA A3-04, JASO, MA2 - Certified?

Edit:

Can't confirm if Amsoil Metric is certified.
10W-40 Synthetic Metric Motorcycle Oil | MCF - AMSOIL
g3348.pdf (amsoilcontent.com)

Use AMSOIL 10W-40 Synthetic Metric Motorcycle Oil in Can-Am,* Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, BMW,* Triumph* and other motorcycles where 10W-40 motorcycle oil is required. Recommended for transmissions requiring an API GL-1 fluid. Not recommended where an API GL-4 or GL-5 gear oil is required. • API SM, JASO MA/MA2

Never said to not use that are recommended, or state they meet or exceed the JASO spec, but do not have JASO certification, just so many get hung up on the JASO certification standard.
Are the oils that are not on the JASO list but say they meet the spec bad oils?
No way.
For whatever reason, they have done in house testing to show it meets the spec, but never sent the info or paid the fee to JALOS (the group responsible for setting the different JASO standards). Last I heard it was something like 40,000 yen, <$300 US (but that was several years ago). One would think if a company makes, sells, and markets a motorcycle oil, that they would want the actual certification from the governing body for that.

I just find the hypocrisy funny that some (on pretty much any motorcycle forum) will rag on someone for using an oil that says nothing on the bottle about JASO (i.e. a "car oil"), talking about how one should only use JASO certified oils in the bike, yet then go and post they use or recommend an oil that is not JASO certified, only recommended.
Again, not saying one can't use these oils, many of them are very good oils, but understanding that the words on the bottle or their data sheet do have meaning, and implying something to be a "fact" but in reality is not, well, that's wrong.

So as I said previously, call me nitpicky or petty, not really an issue with me, I will use what I believe to be something that will work for me and my bike. Not saying others have to. Not asking what others think of it.
Just that one understands and is clear about how marketing works and clarity on the difference between being a certified oil and meeting the specification of a certification.

edit: Umm, Motul 7100 4T is a JASO MA2 oil, has the certification mark on the front of the bottle.

again, goes back to understanding marketing and having some knowledge about a product. I know researching something is hard.
Would be nice if we had a device that we could quickly search things on and get correct information about a product and not have to rely on hearsey.

Edit again: OK I see how you are. the first 3 oils you listed are JASO oils. All 3 have on the bottle that they are certified. All 3 are on the JASO list.
The Amsoil is not JASO. I just looked on the list. Not that hard to figure out.
Not sure if you really are that dense, just trying to be argumentative or what.

Anyway, I have nothing further to contribute to this thread.

 

[atc250r]

Now let’s talk about Amsoil Powersports 0W-40. This is stated on the Product Specs -

It meets the frictional requirements of JASO MA/MA2 and ISO-L-EMA2.

https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/databulletins/g1713.pdf

https://www.amsoil.ca/p/formula-4-stroke-powersports-0w-40-synthetic-motor-oil-aff/

But when some people here were using this product and then posted UOA’s, the oil performed poorly. I called Amsoil Technical Support and they were firm that this particular oil should NOT be used in a motorcycle application.

So, just because an oil references JASO MA/MA2, do not assume it is a good choice for motorcycles.

 

[Gunnert]

Now let’s talk about Amsoil Powersports 0W-40. This is stated on the Product Specs -

It meets the frictional requirements of JASO MA/MA2 and ISO-L-EMA2.

https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/databulletins/g1713.pdf

https://www.amsoil.ca/p/formula-4-stroke-powersports-0w-40-synthetic-motor-oil-aff/

But when some people here were using this product and then posted UOA’s, the oil performed poorly. I called Amsoil Technical Support and they were firm that this particular oil should NOT be used in a motorcycle application.

So, just because an oil references JASO MA/MA2, do not assume it is a good choice for motorcycles.

How about a link? I must have missed the posts WRT K1600 owners using AmsOil PowerSports 0w40... Only AmsOil I'ver ever read about that was compatible with the K bike is AmsOil Metric, 10w40.

Duane

 

[atc250r]

How about a link? I must have missed the posts WRT K1600 owners using AmsOil PowerSports 0w40... Only AmsOil I'ver ever read about that was compatible with the K bike is AmsOil Metric, 10w40.

Duane

All you have to do is type in “0W-40” into the advanced Search. Below is just a few of the results. Many more threads exist, that I didn’t bother supplying links to WRT to 0W-40 discussions

Who's Using Just Ams 0-40?

Just changed out to 5qts Ams 0W-40, and Ams 75W-90 Severe Gear in the final drive. Who else besides capav8r is using just Ams 0W-40? I read all the posts re Amsoil, those mixing 0/40 with 10/40, fence sitters and outright nay sayers. I'm just looking to hear from the Ams 0W-40 purists and their...

www.k1600forum.com

BMW oil, Castrol, Amsoil or other. Whats your brand

I was reading a lot of oil posts, and was thinking on the first oil change of what I might go with. The Castrol is quite a bit cheaper and has all the ratings that the owners manual calls for. I know Amsoil is real good oil as well as BMWs brand. If there was ever a warranty claim and you...

www.k1600forum.com

Substitute engine oil specifications.

Reading and reading about oil specifications and manufacturer recommendations I have come to the conclusion to look hard at viscosity when selecting a substitute engine oil. Viscosity at 40 C, 100 C and the Viscosity Index. The most important being the 100 C viscosity and the Viscosity Index...

www.k1600forum.com

Amsoil

I normally use a soil dominator 15w50 in my bikes. Does anyone know if this oil meets BMW specifications or which oils do?

www.k1600forum.com

Just Ordered Two Cases of This;

AMSOIL Formula 4-Stroke PowerSports 0W-40 I should have enough to last maybe a year? :eek: OBTW! This was at the recommendation of RL so, if you don't agree with the choice, take it up with him! :k16:

www.k1600forum.com

Amsoil 10W40 Engine Oil Question

Well, Anyone running Amsoil 10w40? Reason I ask, went to dealer today and picked up some oil filters. Bike has 7k miles and I wanted to change oil myself. Seems bike needs to have 5w40 oil. Thoughts?

www.k1600forum.com

the manual says 5w40 but...

I don't pretend to be a motorcycle genius or even a half arsed mechanic. My brand new 2013 GTL is due a 6k service which I'll lovingly refer to as a fancy oil/fluid change. In reading the manual it says BMW recommends Castrol power 1 5w40 synthetic oil. This specific oil is proving to be...

www.k1600forum.com

Super Deal on Amsoil products

I have always been a great fan of Amsoil products but sometimes finding what I want locally has been a challenge. The other day I was reading a post by forum member capav8r where he mentioned that he would provide Amsoil products at a reduced cost and provide other great incentives to K16...

www.k1600forum.com

Another Oil Thread - The changed BMW Owners Manual oil...

For reasons discussed on other threads, BMW has decided to change the Owners Manual oil specification for weight. Original: Note the 10w-50 weight. Now: Note that now it's only 5w-40. Amsoil recommends their 10w-40 for BMW motorcycles. Looking at the change to the oil specifications, to a...

www.k1600forum.com

JASO MA vs JASO MA2 Oil

It is my understanding that the MA2 designation was developed to protect the catalytic converters on modern bikes. It is also my understanding that they remove some of the phosphorus and boron from the oil to accomplish this. It is also my understanding that if you do not have a catalytic...

www.k1600forum.com

 

[Gunnert]

I stand corrected! Had no idea so many were making this DA mistake!

Duane

 

[1004ron]

BS snipped......
Not sure if you really are that dense, just trying to be argumentative or what.

You might be too smart for this forum.

Anyway, I have nothing further to contribute to this thread.

No doubt.